FASTA and the MSD8x....

OpenFlash · 03-01-2012, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

What is direction injection?

A by-product of iPhone autocorrect

CPWINCH · 03-01-2012, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

From everything I can tell any guessing that FASTA logs max load and or boost is just that, pure speculation. .

Cheers,
Rob

\
It is true, im close with my SA and we had a conversation about it and it is infact true. He is chill with mods but BMWNA asked for FASTA data for replacing turbos and they flagged him after seeing max boost

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 03-01-2012, 08:23 PM

No data to prove otherwise, Cobb?

Rob@Cobb · 03-01-2012, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Rob- the MSS60 DME and the MSD80/81 share the same case and manufacturer. The board is going to be different since the MSS65 isn't direction injection. As noted in the sticky, this data came from an e90 m3. The contact who supplied this screenshot to me is working on doing the same test with the reflashed MSD80/81.

I recall just last year you suggesting that max data was stored in %-of-limit format and not in nominal value format. This collected data suggests otherwise. I have strong reason to believe that all current Siemens MS family DME's are similar in this respect. If you have similar screen shot data that suggest otherwise, it would be nice to see it.

Regards,
Shiv

It stands that you have no evidence to your claims, same ECU or not. Guessing or "strong reason" or speculation by definition is not fact. Please stop spreading rumor.

Can we spare the spin tactic for now? I'm not in the mood.

Cheers,
Rob

Rob@Cobb · 03-01-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

No data to prove otherwise, Cobb?

I have nothing to prove.

Cheers,
Rob

OpenFlash · 03-01-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

\
It is true, im close with my SA and we had a conversation about it and it is infact true. He is chill with mods but BMWNA asked for FASTA data for replacing turbos and they flagged him after seeing max boost

Same situation with one of our customers who used to run a flash. He programmed his DME back to his original file, dropped off his car at the dealership to get a noisy rear turbo replaced under warranty. Two days later, the dealership informed him that BMW AG refused the claim due to the fact the car was tuned. His car was also flagged and effectively loss his powertrain warranty. He tried to get a print out of the incriminating evidence from the dealership but failed. So I don't think we are talking about the same person.

Again, no one is suggesting that this is common occurrence. But to say that it can't happen is just misplaced optimism, IMHO. It's really up to the dealership to see how far they want to investigate. I suspect most dealerships don't want to alienate their clients and try to get things approved without raising any eyebrows from the mothership.

Shiv

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 03-01-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

I have nothing to prove.

Cheers,
Rob

I'm sure your future customers would love to hear your side of the story and data to put them at ease. I often get the question a lot about "can the dealer see a Cobb" and I can only assume the information I'm given is just and true, just like many other vendors. However, I know a lot of us would rather not stick our foot in our mouths on things like that.

What Vishnu may claim may very well be rumors or hearsay but the question still remains to many people today is can you genuinely prove otherwise for the good of the community and your tune?

ATP · 03-01-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

I have nothing to prove.

Cheers,
Rob

While I generally agree, it would be cool if you had some screen shots to better explain. If not, hopefully Vasillalov can post some for us all.

At the very least, thanks for chiming in!

onesuperboi · 03-01-2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I'm sure your future customers would love to hear your side of the story and data to put them at ease. I often get the question a lot about "can the dealer see a Cobb" and I can only assume the information I'm given is just and true, just like many other vendors. However, I know a lot of us would rather not stick our foot in our mouths on things like that.

What Vishnu may claim may very well be rumors or hearsay but the question still remains to many people today is can you genuinely prove otherwise for the good of the community and your tune?

Shiv brought this up in the first place to challenge the fact that flash tunes are undetectable. There shouldn't be a sticky on a subject that isn't conclusive. All that is asked is more evidence and not hearsay. Hell, Vas's injector coding should be a sticky since it can be proven and done.

Focus · 03-01-2012, 08:43 PM

Cobb, please do not fall into a tuner debate. Exit. Exit noooow.

rader1 · 03-01-2012, 08:46 PM

I, for one, would like to know exactly why shiv's post was not only stickied, but locked to prevent any discussion? And what's up with all the deleted posts?

ATP · 03-01-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

By the way, a DME running a piggyback doesn't result in any of the things you claim in the quote above. I'm not sure you understand how they work judging by your statement.

Care to explain why you believe FASTA does not record over revs with a piggy? As long as the rev limiter is raised using a piggy, why wouldn't FASTA see that? Is it because the piggy "lies" to the DME in order to raise that limit?

OpenFlash · 03-01-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATP

Care to explain why you believe FASTA does not record over revs with a piggy? As long as the rev limiter is raised using a piggy, why wouldn't FASTA see that? Is it because the piggy "lies" to the DME in order to raise that limit?

A piggyback doesn't raise the rev limiter.

RaihaX · 03-01-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rader1

I, for one, would like to know exactly why shiv's post was not only stickied, but locked to prevent any discussion? And what's up with all the deleted posts?

Im sure you know why

OpenFlash · 03-01-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaihaX

Im sure you know why

I'm am all for merging the two thread and keeping it open. Perhaps a moderator could make this happen?

ATP · 03-01-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

A piggyback doesn't raise the rev limiter.

Speed delimiter, my fault.

rader1 · 03-01-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaihaX

Im sure you know why

I'd just like to see someone at bimmerpost/mod to "man up" and say something

themyst · 03-01-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I'm sure your future customers would love to hear your side of the story and data to put them at ease. I often get the question a lot about "can the dealer see a Cobb" and I can only assume the information I'm given is just and true, just like many other vendors. However, I know a lot of us would rather not stick our foot in our mouths on things like that.

What Vishnu may claim may very well be rumors or hearsay but the question still remains to many people today is can you genuinely prove otherwise for the good of the community and your tune?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

Threads seem to close before I get around to replying, so I figured I would open my own thread on FASTA.

From the sticky post I see over-rev data being collected from a S65 containing a very different ECU from the MSD8x. Different from the PCB to the case. Missing is load or pressure from the screen shot. Completely inconclusive data saying a tune can be detected.

From everything I can tell any guessing that FASTA logs max load and or boost is just that, pure speculation. I would love to see hard data that FASTA in fact logs boost or load. It would be nice to see the sticky with inconclusive guessing removed as it is being portrayed as fact BMW can detect when a tune has been on the car via FASTA data.

As a side note, we can clear FASTA data and control when it's tripped.

Cheers,
Rob

I bolded the portion that you may have missed. Your customers are all safe!

ATP · 03-01-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm am all for merging the two thread and keeping it open. Perhaps a moderator could make this happen?

Nice to hear. The real question is why the heck it was closed and stickied in the first place before any real discussion happened.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 03-01-2012, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesuperboi

Shiv brought this up in the first place to challenge the fact that flash tunes are undetectable. There shouldn't be a sticky on a subject that isn't conclusive. All that is asked is more evidence and not hearsay. Hell, Vas's injector coding should be a sticky since it can be proven and done.

Not sure that is the point, as nothing has been disproved or proved. Wouldn't you guys like to know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

I bolded the portion that you may have missed. Your customers are all safe!

Wait wait wait... so because Rob said its safe, now its safe but provided nothing but his words.

Right...

ATP · 03-01-2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Not sure that is the point, as nothing has been disproved or proved. Wouldn't you guys like to know?

Wait wait wait... so because Rob said its safe, now its safe but provided nothing but his words.

Right...

Exactly, it shouldn't be a sticky at all until there is proof. Shiv didn't post PROOF either, he posted a theory based on data and made some assumptions. Apparently Shiv's word is enough for the mods to delete posts, lock, and sticky the thread. If they can take his word for it, why not take Rob's?

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 03-01-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATP

Exactly, it shouldn't be a sticky at all until there is proof. Shiv didn't post PROOF either, he posted a theory based on data and made some assumptions. Apparently Shiv's word is enough for the mods to delete posts, lock, and sticky the thread. If they can take his word for it, why not take Rob's?

Yes, but lets move forward. Is this really the logic being used by posters today? Lets just take everyones word for it?

If I tell you I can turn poop into gold are you all going to believe me?

03-01-2012, 08:23 PM	#25
Jeff@TopGearSolutions 3461 Rep 79,211 Posts Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com iTrader: (37)	No data to prove otherwise, Cobb?
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03-01-2012, 08:43 PM	#32
Focus Captain 68 Rep 942 Posts Drives: N/A Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Jersey iTrader: (2)	Cobb, please do not fall into a tuner debate. Exit. Exit noooow. __________________
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03-01-2012, 08:46 PM	#33
rader1 Banned 70 Rep 2,197 Posts Drives: Cobb Stage 2+ 135i Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Roanoke, VA iTrader: (0)	I, for one, would like to know exactly why shiv's post was not only stickied, but locked to prevent any discussion? And what's up with all the deleted posts?
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