[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Make sure you never forget that.

:

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Oh, Fundguy1 and Tesla
You always seem to attack the company any time you get a chance
Did you have the same approach to Amazon stock when they were losing money because of rapid growth?
No assets?
So, former large modernized Toyota plant where they are building 100K cars a year is not an asset? That same plant is expanding for 500K volume.
Is Gigafactory asset, or the largest Solar plant in Buffalo NY?
They have to invest and spend to grow and with your background you should know this.
Unless you work for oil industry and really against it

I guess we will see. I see this idea, concept, takung a big step backward in terms of popularity as you now have an administration pulling all support for these ideas and at the same time promoting US energy making the economics for tesla even tougher. Really though they net the farm on the tesla 3 and that it will sell in a declining gas price environment. Sure the gadget geeks and greenies will buy it. But after the first couple months, will they be able to convince the average guy. Two date I have yet to hear a single person, except a tesla s owner, even mention the car. That's a bad sign. I don't see a big solar array or a capacitor for the power grid being big cash cows that keeps them afloat if the 3 fails.

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I guess we will see. I see this idea, concept, takung a big step backward in terms of popularity as you now have an administration pulling all support for these ideas and at the same time promoting US energy making the economics for tesla even tougher. Really though they net the farm on the tesla 3 and that it will sell in a declining gas price environment. Sure the gadget geeks and greenies will buy it. But after the first couple months, will they be able to convince the average guy. Two date I have yet to hear a single person, except a tesla s owner, even mention the car. That's a bad sign. I don't see a big solar array or a capacitor for the power grid being big cash cows that keeps them afloat if the 3 fails.

According to Musk they are backlogged with hundreds of thousands of orders for the 3. With more flooding in every day. The big problem, according to Tesla's PR department is delivery of all the 3s that have been ordered.

I continue to believe Tesla has bit off more than it can chew and continues to bleed money. I believe that it is a good takeover candidate, assuming it survives the 3 rollout.

Setting up and selling from an Internet site and manufacturing automobiles in a viciously competitive environment are two different things. With the latter you actually have to deliver complicated machinery that is well designed and well put together. On both of those points Tesla is not cutting edge. The designs are bland and the cars have low quality control. The only thing cutting edge is the software, but the competition will be able to catch up pretty quickly as we move towards autonomy.

I would also mention that the thousands of computer-batteries energizing the cars is the opposite of cutting edge. As is the use of materials which do not include carbon fiber or other lightweight substitutes for steel and aluminum.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Look at Amazon 20-25 years ago: same as Tesla. Tesla ain't losing money but reinvest their cash into future innovation.
The whole stock price is a bet that investors would place based on the company's ability to innovate. In this case, no doubt about Tesla's innovation: Model S was 5 years ahead anyone in this industry. Look at that. Besides, product portfolio: Tesla is not a pure Automaker company but energy company: Tesla Roof, PowerWall, Solar City remind you of anything? Make sure you never forget that.

They are spending a lot more than they are making so not sure how this doesn't result in a loss. You can say they will eventually flip the results but right not they are losing money. If I was taking out huge loans (or selling a % of my business to investors) to invest in risky stocks that might pay off in the future everyone would say I was currently losing money.

I have no doubt about there ability to innovate, I have serious doubts about them making money medium to long term. Roof, Powerwall, solar city, cars, all currently losing money.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Tesla's Model X is barely selling so I doubt they'll hit #4 with current offerings.

If Tesla can actually deliver the new 3 on time and with the numbers required, Tesla will easily be number 4, or higher.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by David70

Roof, Powerwall, solar city, cars, all currently losing money.

Not sure if I understand this statement correctly, but it sounds like you implied that Tesla is losing money on every item it sells
Cars: they have close to 25% profit margin. So by selling more cars they earn money, not losing.
Powerwall: same thing, sold at the profit
The net income is what they are losing, but that is really investing into their own business for growth
Expanding factories, supercharger network and stores cost money, along with other expenses
This happens in every new business, especially with such rapid growth

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by David70

They are spending a lot more than they are making so not sure how this doesn't result in a loss. You can say they will eventually flip the results but right not they are losing money. If I was taking out huge loans (or selling a % of my business to investors) to invest in risky stocks that might pay off in the future everyone would say I was currently losing money.

I have no doubt about there ability to innovate, I have serious doubts about them making money medium to long term. Roof, Powerwall, solar city, cars, all currently losing money.

You must be uninformed about the whole "losing money" thing. Tesla's margin on Model S is around $21k. I don't know where you get your source of "losing money". Same as others in their product lines!

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Not sure if I understand this statement correctly, but it sounds like you implied that Tesla is losing money on every item it sells
Cars: they have close to 25% profit margin. So by selling more cars they earn money, not losing.
Powerwall: same thing, sold at the profit
The net income is what they are losing, but that is really investing into their own business for growth
Expanding factories, supercharger network and stores cost money, along with other expenses
This happens in every new business, especially with such rapid growth

This is exactly what I tried to say earlier, but these didn't get thru some denial heads!

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Pretender

You must be uninformed about the whole "losing money" thing. Tesla's margin on Model S is around $21k. I don't know where you get your source of "losing money". Same as others in their product lines!

Losing money is in their companies financial statements. They've only been afloat from the appreciation of their stock and loans. I posted the link but its public. Just becaise they make a profit on each car doesn't mean the company is in the black.

[Fundguy1]

As you can see here, the only thing that has kept them in the black is borrowing money which makes interest a new cost, and sale of stock. Without these two they are loosing money every quarter in the hundreds of millions to billions. That's a lot of ground to cover making cars.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/fi...data=quarterly

[David70]

Originally Posted by Pretender

You must be uninformed about the whole "losing money" thing. Tesla's margin on Model S is around $21k. I don't know where you get your source of "losing money". Same as others in their product lines!

I got this information from the financial statements prepared by Tesla. They also continue to go through programs to raise more money. Whether each car is profitable or not, it isn't enough to support their level of spending.

Read their financials and show me the bottom line numbers, they are spending more than they are making. Financial statements are produced to show actual money brought in and money going out and cuts through the BS.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by David70

I got this information from the financial statements prepared by Tesla. They also continue to go through programs to raise more money. Whether each car is profitable or not, it isn't enough to support their level of spending.

Read their financials and show me the bottom line numbers, they are spending more than they are making. Financial statements are produced to show actual money brought in and money going out and cuts through the BS.

Well put. Here's a link to the Tesla income statement history. I still am bullish on Tesla regardless of past financial performance, but they are, in fact, operating at a loss.http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/fi...come-statement

[AndreyATC]

I guess the game has just changed
https://electrek.co/2017/06/09/tesla...e-car-company/

Over the past few months, Tesla’s valuation surged past Ford and GM but following another surge over the past 2 weeks, Tesla’s market capitalization is now worth more than BMW’s.

It is now the 4th most valuable car company in the world.

[David70]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

I guess the game has just changed
https://electrek.co/2017/06/09/tesla...e-car-company/

How do you figure things just changed?

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by David70

How do you figure things just changed?

Well, at least the title of the thread shouldn't say "Second most valuable car brand"

[David70]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Well, at least the title of the thread shouldn't say "Second most valuable car brand"

I see what you are saying now but the original post was determining brand value based on 3 million surveys, your link is stating market cap based on stock price. It depends on what we are talking about and how it is determined.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by David70

I see what you are saying now but the original post was determining brand value based on 3 million surveys, your link is stating market cap based on stock price. It depends on what we are talking about and how it is determined.

At the end of the day, it's really not that important who is more valuable
Lets build better cars and keep the consumers/investors happy


I'd like Tesla to succeed and I'd like BMW to raise their bar and be innovator instead of playing catch-up (not comparing anyone here)

[jkoral]

Tesla Just Passed BMW in Market Cap

Tesla Inc. stock is the new ultimate driving machine.

Shares of Elon Musk’s electric-car maker climbed 1.4 percent as of 11:10 a.m. Friday, boosting its market capitalization to $61.6 billion, about $280 million more than BMW AG. Tesla now ranks as the fourth-most valuable automaker, behind Toyota Motor Corp., Daimler AG and Volkswagen AG.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

If Tesla can actually deliver the new 3 on time and with the numbers required, Tesla will easily be number 4, or higher.

Big 'IF'. 300-500K cars, glitch free and if everything goes according to plan. Tesla only builds about 2000 cars per week in a state of the art plant. At that pace, given the orders (supposedly) received, it'll take 5yrs before the original orders are filled.

Like I said..#4 ain't happening anytime soon.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Big 'IF'. 300-500K cars, glitch free and if everything goes according to plan. Tesla only builds about 2000 cars per week in a state of the art plant. At that pace, given the orders (supposedly) received, it'll take 5yrs before the original orders are filled.

Like I said..#4 ain't happening anytime soon.

BMW-like glitch free?
That's pretty easy to accomplish

Coming soon...near you
3-series and C-class overfilled lots with pre-owned vehicles at highly discounted price

[cwulffy]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Within 3 years, Tesla will be at #4 once all model 3 are delivered.

Lol, that gave me a good laugh.

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by cwulffy

Lol, that gave me a good laugh.

Keep laughing. Daimler is crying now.