[mycoupe]

I never said the o2 sensors don't fit on mine. Only problem with mine is the one bung, which they are paying to have taken care of. If someone will pay for my dynos, I'd be more than happy to do a baseline and post dp pull so you guys can see the numbers. Also, if I can find someone in the auto program nearby, I'll see if they'll stick em on the flow bench so we can at least have one set of dp's numbers.

Also, I'm not trying to say that these are great looking pipes or anything. I am more so just trying yo see what can be had for less...which can save you money to put towards meth or a good intercooler.

[AlterZgo]

People think it only comes down to price and quality and that those willing to pay for quality are being suckers by paying for name brand stuff. But, the other big thing is, many of these companies making cheap knock off products don't actually invest in our market. They take name brand products and copy them at a fraction of the cost.

While this may be OK in the short term (many people get cheap products that yield similar performance), in the long term, this eventually drives out the companies who actually supported our cars in the first place by investing in it.

For example, a company custom fabricates an exhaust system, makes the jigs, does the R&D to test various pipe diameters, etc. Then, a Chinese company comes along, and just rips off the exact design and starts producing a knock off at 1/3 the price. We also see this happening with body kits and rims (think M3/M6 reps, BBS LM reps, Advan reps, etc.).

My question is, do any of you really think these companies producing knock offs would be willing to invest in building exhaust systems, or hire designers who have the capability to design the rims and body kits in the style that we like?

BTW, here's an example of what I'm talking about... HPF exhaust system... check out all those cuts and welds on that prototype exhaust along with the jig they've built:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450386

The knock off companies don't have to do this. They'll just buy the finished HPF exhaust, build a jig around that and start mass manufacturing knock offs. Their R&D cost = the price of buying an HPF exhaust.

[mycoupe]

^^^ very true, but not all of us can afford to "invest in the community". Unfortunately, you have to take care of yourself before you can help others. It's the sad truth.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

My question is, do any of you really think these companies producing knock offs would be willing to invest in building exhaust systems, or hire designers who have the capability to design the rims and body kits in the style that we like?

Not a chance in the world. Much easier to rip off other peoples hard work.

[vasillalov]

mycoupe, are you leasing?

[BOOSTED4DR]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I paid 200 bucks for awesome dps BUT only thing is the 02 sensors dont fit, one of the bung is not welded on and oh yeah the turbo flange is not particularly rounded and bent so it doesn't fit right....Hey I saved alot of money!

....

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by BOOSTED4DR

....

Lol. How the car coming along man?

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

People think it only comes down to price and quality and that those willing to pay for quality are being suckers by paying for name brand stuff. But, the other big thing is, many of these companies making cheap knock off products don't actually invest in our market. They take name brand products and copy them at a fraction of the cost.

While this may be OK in the short term (many people get cheap products that yield similar performance), in the long term, this eventually drives out the companies who actually supported our cars in the first place by investing in it.

For example, a company custom fabricates an exhaust system, makes the jigs, does the R&D to test various pipe diameters, etc. Then, a Chinese company comes along, and just rips off the exact design and starts producing a knock off at 1/3 the price. We also see this happening with body kits and rims (think M3/M6 reps, BBS LM reps, Advan reps, etc.).

My question is, do any of you really think these companies producing knock offs would be willing to invest in building exhaust systems, or hire designers who have the capability to design the rims and body kits in the style that we like?

BTW, here's an example of what I'm talking about... HPF exhaust system... check out all those cuts and welds on that prototype exhaust along with the jig they've built:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450386

The knock off companies don't have to do this. They'll just buy the finished HPF exhaust, build a jig around that and start mass manufacturing knock offs. Their R&D cost = the price of buying an HPF exhaust.

Welcome to America...this has been going on now for the past 20yrs...and growing. Ask the largest Retailer in the World...Walmart...it is how they make so much money.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by mycoupe

I never said the o2 sensors don't fit on mine. Only problem with mine is the one bung, which they are paying to have taken care of. If someone will pay for my dynos, I'd be more than happy to do a baseline and post dp pull so you guys can see the numbers. Also, if I can find someone in the auto program nearby, I'll see if they'll stick em on the flow bench so we can at least have one set of dp's numbers.

Also, I'm not trying to say that these are great looking pipes or anything. I am more so just trying yo see what can be had for less...which can save you money to put towards meth or a good intercooler.

People can't read and comprehend the English language apparently.


Waiting for big name vendor to bench flow test the Chinese made pipes.

Nobody has denied the build quality isn't the best...but they do the job.

Do what you want with your money..if you want to drop $800+ on DPs plus the install for an additional 5-10hp...enjoy!

This all sounds so familiar with the E46 M3 headers from Ebay. Supesprint and AA charged $1400 for their headers. Ebay headers were $250...yeah, like the Racelands, they had some QC issues and a pain to fit sometimes...but they worked, PROVEN DYNO HP gains just like AA and Superspint.

Then someone asked AA why their headers looked just like the Ebay ones...seriously...AA wouldn't answer the question ever....haha....

To each his own.

[Clap135]

Overpriced name brand parts < my bank account. If the "inventors" if you want to call it that, go out of business, oh well. Another fly by night vendor will apear. Personally I could careless.

[mycoupe]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

mycoupe, are you leasing?

Nope, I purchased. If it were internals or a turbo upgrade etc(something where quality was of the utmost importance) I would, and have, shell/ed out the money. Some pipes, however, please.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by mycoupe

Nope, I purchased. If it were internals or a turbo upgrade etc(something where quality was of the utmost importance) I would, and have, shell/ed out the money. Some pipes, however, please.

Then I pray for you and your car. I really don't want to see problems coming out of those downpipes but I've seen it happen before in other platforms. I really hope that you won't have to purchase the "brand name" downpipes a year or so down the line because the raceland units broke/bent/cracked. In case that happens, I hope nothing else breaks on your car, cause that would turn out to be one expensive mistake.

[Al Blue4.6l]

this really kills me about the BMW market - the rediculously expensive exhaust systems.
some other products I can understand. and I understand it is a much smaller aftermarket than the Mustang aftermarket I am used to and R&D therefore cannot be spread out over a larger group.

but $800 for downpipes? $2000 for certain axle back exhausts? ridiculous.

[vasillalov]

$800 for downpipes is a recent development! They are actually not $800 but $729 for the catless units for 335i. Downpipes with high-flow cats are another $300 making them total of $1029. Like I said, this is recent development and AR has given the reasoning behind the price increase.

For comparison: I purchased my AR catless DP in a "power pack" deal with AE Perf. Catless Exhaust back in April. Back then, I paid a little just under $500 for my dowpipes. Again, that was a discounted price for a power pack deal, and it was way before the price increase.

In the end I got full catless turbo back exhaust system consisting of AR Downpipes, AE Perf Exhaust + AR hardware and gaskets + BMS downpipe fix shipped to my door for under $2500.

Will I pay this again: ABSOLUTELY YES!

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by techlogik

People can't read and comprehend the English language apparently.


Waiting for big name vendor to bench flow test the Chinese made pipes.

Nobody has denied the build quality isn't the best...but they do the job.

Do what you want with your money..if you want to drop $800+ on DPs plus the install for an additional 5-10hp...enjoy!

This all sounds so familiar with the E46 M3 headers from Ebay. Supesprint and AA charged $1400 for their headers. Ebay headers were $250...yeah, like the Racelands, they had some QC issues and a pain to fit sometimes...but they worked, PROVEN DYNO HP gains just like AA and Superspint.

Then someone asked AA why their headers looked just like the Ebay ones...seriously...AA wouldn't answer the question ever....haha....

To each his own.

Again...maybe its something that you cant comprehend...While we all know saving money is a good thing, many of us DIYERs would pay the extra money just to save headaches when it comes down to installing the aftermarket parts..Having to go through the trouble when the car is in pieces to find out that the part doesn't fit whether it be the 02 bung or whatever is not enough to save me money and feel it was a good tradeoff from the higher costing DPs out there...With the high end overpriced DPs as you so call it, there is a security that it will fit spot on 100%...All I am saying is with this particular DP product, its cheap and not worth it because with cheap knock offs, there is a compromise and its quality of workmanship....

[dbjb]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Then I pray for you and your car. I really don't want to see problems coming out of those downpipes but I've seen it happen before in other platforms. I really hope that you won't have to purchase the "brand name" downpipes a year or so down the line because the raceland units broke/bent/cracked. In case that happens, I hope nothing else breaks on your car, cause that would turn out to be one expensive mistake.

I know all to well the frustration of getting a set of DP's that are not built perfect. I won't argue anyone on that topic. It can be a real PITA.

That said, exactly what do you expect could possibly go wrong with the Racelands once installed? If you have a solid connection to the turbo and to the midpipes, what's the worst that can happen? Maybe... maybe a weld cracks. Even if that were to happen, I don't think the car would experience a catastrophic event. You'd probably hear a funny noise, lose power and eventually have to swap them out. I'm not saying that's nothing but I don't think it's right to imply something horrible will go wrong. If I'm wrong, please post pictures or something that speaks to your experience "in other platforms."

In the end, I think a vendor needs to price a set in the middle. Sell a name brand for $400 or catted for $500. I believe that would still be profitable, capture much more buyers, and provide value to the budget minded owners.

There are things people are willing to buy that makes absolutely no sense to me. How many people buy an LSD, Racing seats, or $6K BBK for a car that never sees the track?! That is just retarded. Oh, and $1K DP's fall into that category.

[tscdennab]

Hi everyone,

As an even cheaper (and better) alternative to Raceland + O2 sims, you may want to consider the CEL-free OEM catless downpipes which I have posted about here...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451224

[mycoupe]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

Hi everyone,

As an even cheaper (and better) alternative to Raceland + O2 sims, you may want to consider the CEL-free OEM catless downpipes which I have posted about here...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451224

No offense, but I would be willing to bet that those have worse air flow than the already bashed angles on the raceland pipes. I will give it to you that it was cheap though.

As for Vassillalov...Do you really even have a clue about what you're speaking about? These are PIPES! not pistons, cams, rods, valves, valve springs, a flywheel, an LSD etc...these are pieces that do not need to be specific to the gram, or to the mm. They just need to connect without gaps, that's it. Also, what kind of wheels do you have on your car bud? Are they top notch name brand? Do you like to go crap on all the wheels threads? Just sayin.

I just sent my DP's to Jet Hot. So, I should get them back in a couple weeks maybe, and then I'll put them on WITH PICS, so you can all see how well or not well they fit. BTW, that o2 bung has already been welded and my account reimbursed for the cost by raceland. Say what you guys will about their knock off parts, but their Customer service has been amazing! Much better to deal with than most companies. And yes, not having to deal with a company in the first place is the best, but not always an option.

Jeff

[vasillalov]

Yes, I do know what I am talking about. Yes, it is pipes. BUT its all about the welds, the flow and the fitment.

If a weld is properly done, it is actually stronger than the material of which the two pieces are welded. If the weld is crap, then this will be the weak point. Ground welds = no no!

[dbjb]

Originally Posted by mycoupe

I just sent my DP's to Jet Hot. So, I should get them back in a couple weeks maybe, and then I'll put them on WITH PICS, so you can all see how well or not well they fit. BTW, that o2 bung has already been welded and my account reimbursed for the cost by raceland. Say what you guys will about their knock off parts, but their Customer service has been amazing! Much better to deal with than most companies. And yes, not having to deal with a company in the first place is the best, but not always an option.

Jeff

Absolutely agree.

[mycoupe]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Ground welds = no no!

Agreed, and none of the welds were ground.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by mycoupe

Agreed, and none of the welds were ground.

If your welds look like this, then they have been ground down: