[StarrDlux]

dude those tools have been so hacked on other car makers. he wish he can keep hackers out of his tools.

Sorry i've seen these tools work before they are not impervious to cracking.

how do you think dinan got in the ecu?

the fact that you can run the software in a virtual machine lends itself wide open.


He'd be better off to be "hacker friendly" with a good wholesome price and no "restrictions" like mentioned above. then folks would leave him alone and he'd get more sales.

Trust me, embrace them, do not fight them. it's a losing battle.

[cgillio]

Originally Posted by StarrDlux

Trust me, embrace them, do not fight them. it's a losing battle.

[smdandb2]

Originally Posted by StarrDlux

dude those tools have been so hacked on other car makers. he wish he can keep hackers out of his tools.

Sorry i've seen these tools work before they are not impervious to cracking.

how do you think dinan got in the ecu?

the fact that you can run the software in a virtual machine lends itself wide open.


He'd be better off to be "hacker friendly" with a good wholesome price and no "restrictions" like mentioned above. then folks would leave him alone and he'd get more sales.

Trust me, embrace them, do not fight them. it's a losing battle.

LOL.

And how many other people have gotten inside of MSD80?

If cracking stuff was soo easy, there would be tons of people offering reflashes.

[StarrDlux]

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law which implements two 1996 WIPO treaties. It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services that are used to circumvent measures that control access to copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of copyright itself.

do you believe MSD80 is copyrighted?

Do you believe it has access control?

[Kyosho]

if MSD80 and other programs are copyrighted, would the shark edit be copyright infringement? I'm not bashing shark edit or anything at all. No offense intended, just a question. If anything, I cant wait for the shark edit to come out and see all the new tunes.

[smdandb2]

Originally Posted by StarrDlux

dude those tools have been so hacked on other car makers. he wish he can keep hackers out of his tools.

Sorry i've seen these tools work before they are not impervious to cracking.

how do you think dinan got in the ecu?

the fact that you can run the software in a virtual machine lends itself wide open.


He'd be better off to be "hacker friendly" with a good wholesome price and no "restrictions" like mentioned above. then folks would leave him alone and he'd get more sales.

Trust me, embrace them, do not fight them. it's a losing battle.

An update DIRECTLY related to this post.

Delayed again.

Security and theft has become a big issue. This post just got the master of cryptography going.

Originally Posted by chatting with the shark

Land Shark says:
hashed, encrypted symmetrically, then encrypted via RSA, then wrapped in another symmetric cipher

Originally Posted by more..

Land Shark says:
The Sad thing is that I was going to eventually make a version that uses XML as the descriptor files - totally open architecture
Land Shark says:
Mr "hacker" just blew that for everyone.

There is more to the security than just encryption too. We'll leave it at that.

During this chat, there may or may not have been a reference to Mr. Would-Be-Hacker licking his BAAAAWWWLLLLSSS.

That is all for now!

[oc24]

Any progress with MSD81?

[smdandb2]

Getting SharkEdit finished is the first priority. Other DMEs can be added later.

[HennarotM3]

Originally Posted by StarrDlux

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law which implements two 1996 WIPO treaties. It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services that are used to circumvent measures that control access to copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of copyright itself.

do you believe MSD80 is copyrighted?

Do you believe it has access control?

Not to go off-topic, but it's questionable whether the contents of the ECU even fall within the realm of copyright.

Copyright Act § 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general

(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:

(1) literary works;

(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;

(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;

(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;

(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;

(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;

(7) sound recordings; and

(8) architectural works.

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#102

It's also questionable whether the DMCA, intended to prevent online piracy, even extends to electronically coded data in ordinary consumer goods. Even if the DMCA does apply, though, there is an exception for hackers using data to test interoperability.

I don't mean to suggest that there are no issues related to cracking the DME. My point is that it's a little misleading to just toss out an ominous-sounding federal law and suggest that the Sharkedit is somehow illegal.

Sorry, back on topic now.

[StarrDlux]

oh i think the only way sharkedit would be illegal is he stored bmw's maps in a plain english "XML" format since that would be similar to decrypting a dvd to unencrypted status. you remember that famous guy that wrong that famous code.

hay man i have no beef with the guy i was just playing devil's advocate.

Clearly bmw is not playing games any more. i'd hate to see anyone get slapped around by their lawyers.

[uberschnell]

Originally Posted by smdandb2

Getting SharkEdit finished is the first priority. Other DMEs can be added later.

[HennarotM3]

Originally Posted by StarrDlux

Clearly bmw is not playing games any more. i'd hate to see anyone get slapped around by their lawyers.

As a final aside, does anyone know if BMW's primary litigation counsel in the USA is (still) Mayer Brown? I know a Mayer Brown partner argued BMW v. Gore before the SCOTUS, which is my point of reference.

[r10apple]

Originally Posted by HennarotM3

As a final aside, does anyone know if BMW's primary litigation counsel in the USA is (still) Mayer Brown? I know a Mayer Brown partner argued BMW v. Gore before the SCOTUS, which is my point of reference.

"primary" is a loaded word, but they were involved in several cases with BMW as late as Feb of this year that I have seen...

[bmwzimmer]

What are the odds of Frying the ECU when attempting a Flash? Dinan just fried an V29.2 ECU recently (either a freak accident or something to do with V29.2). Obviosly Dinan is buying a new ECU for the poor owner but just throwing the possibility out there. Perhaps this is why there's a delay in releasing this product???

[e.n335]

A simple powercut or unplugging the OBD cable "fries" the ECU. BTW, it is not fried, there are no physical defects, it has to be reloaded from scratch, which might be a privilege for BMW Germany. In that context we had already "fried" PROcede units as well.

[smdandb2]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

Obviosly Dinan is buying a new ECU for the poor owner but just throwing the possibility out there. Perhaps this is why there's a delay in releasing this product???

Negative on that ghostrider.

The possibility of coaster'ing a DME is there for any procedure if you don't follow instructions.

Not saying they didnt follow instructions, but there are right ways to do things and wrong ways to do things.

If you get bored, find the instructions for the SharkInjector. That will give you an idea.

[alan93rsa]

Copyright Act § 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general

(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:

(1) literary works;

(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;

(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;

(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;

(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;

(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;

(7) sound recordings; and

(8) architectural works.

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

Can someone translate this into Chinese?

[jworms]

updates?

[ezatnova]

I know no one wants speculation, but I would just LOVE an update as to whether Jim is still considering releasing the S.E. with a solid base tune that he came up with. I know this was not his original intent, however, when a ton of people like myself chimed in begging for it, I believe we were told he then began to consider doing just that.
I dunno...if we get word that the thing will be relased with a Jim tune (effectively making it a Shark Injector for those not wanting to mess with it any more) then I'd be tempted to hold off on the Dinan. If we won't get an official Jim tune at or near release, it could be a painful wait until we get a reliable trustworthy tune, and the Dinan would be all the more attractive.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

I know no one wants speculation, but I would just LOVE an update as to whether Jim is still considering releasing the S.E. with a solid base tune that he came up with. I know this was not his original intent, however, when a ton of people like myself chimed in begging for it, I believe we were told he then began to consider doing just that.
I dunno...if we get word that the thing will be relased with a Jim tune (effectively making it a Shark Injector for those not wanting to mess with it any more) then I'd be tempted to hold off on the Dinan. If we won't get an official Jim tune at or near release, it could be a painful wait until we get a reliable trustworthy tune, and the Dinan would be all the more attractive.

+100

[sflgator]

Personally, I just think it's quite bizarre that he would release an OBD-I version first; this is for what...10+ year old cars????? The 335i and most or all cars for the past 10 years+ use OBD-II ports, correct? It seems so odd to me that he wouldn't release the OBD-II version first and deal with the older outdated version later.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Personally, I just think it's quite bizarre that he would release an ODBI version first; this is for what...10+ year old cars????? The 335i and most or all of the cars for the past 10 years+ use ODBII ports, correct? It seems so odd to me that he wouldn't release the ODBII version first and deal with the older outdated version later.

Pre-96 so 13 year old cars. But the market is fairly significant and may be easier to break into as it is most likely less complex.