[135i_vs_]

Originally Posted by rogerdiaz

Thats what the service advisor told me "problem with bottom end" AFTER they reportedly spent 10k on repairs already on "top end". I dont know what "bottom end" means but will google. apologize. I just get phone calls from SA every couple days and wait till its done.

Can you please share a copy of your last BMW receipt? Curious to see what the SA wrote on it and what is the exact problem you are having.

Since you have been there 4x, I am guessing DDE issues for SES light.

[joe_planet]

Originally Posted by rogerdiaz

Thats what the service advisor told me "problem with bottom end" AFTER they reportedly spent 10k on repairs already on "top end". I dont know what "bottom end" means but will google. apologize. I just get phone calls from SA every couple days and wait till its done.

bottom end is the crankcase.
top end is the heads and intake.

[Hansj01]

I have a 2010 335D. I have 65000 miles on it. My first injector failed at 54000 mile, then another at 60000 miles and now a third one at 67000 miles. That is a 50% injector fail rate at only 67000 miles on a vehicle that is supposed to be built with higher quality components than a Kia. My wife drives a kia, has 172,000 miles on it and has never had an injector fail on it. How sad for BMW not to acknowledge this VERY OBVIOUS mistake (and very dangerous, from a return buyer perspective).

[Hoooper]

DDE failures a-plenty. Comparing diesel common rail injectors to the somewhat "standard" gas injectors is not fair though. Common rail diesel injectors have known worse track record than standard fuel injectors, probably something to do with handling 30,000 PSI vs handling 40 PSI

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

DDE failures a-plenty. Comparing diesel common rail injectors to the somewhat "standard" gas injectors is not fair though. Common rail diesel injectors have known worse track record than standard fuel injectors, probably something to do with handling 30,000 PSI vs handling 40 PSI

Well, I had one of the first E320 CDI's that came across the pond - a 2005 model. One injector out of 6 failed and it was at 120,000 miles as I remember. The others are doing well with my mechanic's wife now driving it at 240,000 miles and counting.

Sorry, but BMW is not the "quality" car it is purported to be in the US. It is a cut below Mercedes as it has always been in Europe. The US market has given Mercedes headaches because of how much profit BMW has gotten from the illusion of equality.

BMW's are not over-engineered like Mercedes or even Porsche. BMW has always pushed the technology envelope and has been a bottom dweller in the reliability ratings.

This does not make it a bad brand nor the 335d a bad car. Its like the Jaguar XKE. If it had been built well by the English, very few would have bought it at a higher price. So enjoy your cars but with no illusions.

PL

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

DDE failures a-plenty. Comparing diesel common rail injectors to the somewhat "standard" gas injectors is not fair though. Common rail diesel injectors have known worse track record than standard fuel injectors, probably something to do with handling 30,000 PSI vs handling 40 PSI

There are many explanations for these things, but from hearing about some incidents that do not involve a DDE, just a bad batch of injectors could be involved, we don't know.

PL

[135i_vs_]

2 important things about these "injector failures" in the 335d.

#1 - BMW do not make the injectors. They are produced by a very reputable company, that make the injectors for many other car companies (Mercedes, VW, etc.)

#2 - How does BMW diagnose an injector failed? Simply when there computer tells them it is, due to an SES code set in the DDE. BMW dealerships does not flow test them to verify the injectors are out of spec/damaged/bad. On my case, BMW Engineering made the dealership flow test one of the new injectors that had "failed" within 250 miles of them installing it. Flow test results were within spec; hence even though the computer said injector is bad, it really was working just fine.

Maybe BMW technical diagnosis software needs to be revised for better trouble shooting.

So technically, fuel injector reliability is solid. Without further technical details, we shouldn't complain about injectors "going bad" in the 335d.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by 135i_vs_

2 important things about these "injector failures" in the 335d.

#1 - BMW do not make the injectors. They are produced by a very reputable company, that make the injectors for many other car companies (Mercedes, VW, etc.)

#2 - How does BMW diagnose an injector failed? Simply when there computer tells them it is, due to an SES code set in the DDE. BMW dealerships does not flow test them to verify the injectors are out of spec/damaged/bad. On my case, BMW Engineering made the dealership flow test one of the new injectors that had "failed" within 250 miles of them installing it. Flow test results were within spec; hence even though the computer said injector is bad, it really was working just fine.

Maybe BMW technical diagnosis software needs to be revised for better trouble shooting.

So technically, fuel injector reliability is solid. Without further technical details, we shouldn't complain about injectors "going bad" in the 335d.

This could very well be true, but the specs may be different for a tighter emissions control system in our diesel motor than in previous diesels that may tolerate wider variability. The BMW spec may be co-dependent upon the computer, ha ha.

PL

[AzureHaze]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Sorry, but BMW is not the "quality" car it is purported to be in the US. It is a cut below Mercedes as it has always been in Europe.

+1. Believe it or not, BMW is really considered an entry-level luxury brand in Europe along with Audi. Didn't know about that till recently.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Well, I had one of the first E320 CDI's that came across the pond - a 2005 model. One injector out of 6 failed and it was at 120,000 miles as I remember. The others are doing well with my mechanic's wife now driving it at 240,000 miles and counting.

Sorry, but BMW is not the "quality" car it is purported to be in the US. It is a cut below Mercedes as it has always been in Europe. The US market has given Mercedes headaches because of how much profit BMW has gotten from the illusion of equality.

BMW's are not over-engineered like Mercedes or even Porsche. BMW has always pushed the technology envelope and has been a bottom dweller in the reliability ratings.

This does not make it a bad brand nor the 335d a bad car. Its like the Jaguar XKE. If it had been built well by the English, very few would have bought it at a higher price. So enjoy your cars but with no illusions.

PL

Im not trying to suggest that BMW is some great quality car, I would actually disagree with that being that you cannot even compare BMW quality (in terms of durability) to the likes of Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. These days I would say quality goes Japan>Korea>US>German>>>>>>>>English and BMW is toward the bottom of the quality list for German cars that make it to the US. My point was more that common rail injector failures are much more common than standard fuel injectors. Trucks are the biggest data point in the US for this and it seems like they all get at least one injector failure at one point or another, while cars with typical fuel injection systems injector failures are pretty much unheard of

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Im not trying to suggest that BMW is some great quality car, I would actually disagree with that being that you cannot even compare BMW quality (in terms of durability) to the likes of Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. These days I would say quality goes Japan>Korea>US>German>>>>>>>>English and BMW is toward the bottom of the quality list for German cars that make it to the US. My point was more that common rail injector failures are much more common than standard fuel injectors. Trucks are the biggest data point in the US for this and it seems like they all get at least one injector failure at one point or another, while cars with typical fuel injection systems injector failures are pretty much unheard of

Point well made. But Mercedes doesn't seem to have this problem as much and VW has had DI diesel engines for a long time in the US market and their injector failure rates seem nowhere near what we hear about in the 335d.

Wonder how this will change with the advent of direct injection in gasoline engines.

PL

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Point well made. But Mercedes doesn't seem to have this problem as much and VW has had DI diesel engines for a long time in the US market and their injector failure rates seem nowhere near what we hear about in the 335d.

Wonder how this will change with the advent of direct injection in gasoline engines.

PL

Ehh....we've had a few Benz cars and from my experience the pre-2000 cars were much more reliable than current offerings.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Socom

Ehh....we've had a few Benz cars and from my experience the pre-2000 cars were much more reliable than current offerings.

Right, ehh, how many of the pre-2000 were common rail direct injection?

Before 1997, Mercedes did not have CR direct injection.

2009 model year seems to be the one where the problems start as more strict regulations came into effect, especially in the US market. But again, not so much from direct injection designs of other manufacturers which like VW have been on the market for a while.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/10712142...0-years-of-cdi

PL

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Right, ehh, how many of the pre-2000 were common rail direct injection?

Before 1997, Mercedes did not have CR direct injection.

2009 model year seems to be the one where the problems start as more strict regulations came into effect, especially in the US market. But again, not so much from direct injection designs of other manufacturers which like VW have been on the market for a while.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/10712142...0-years-of-cdi

PL

I speaking of overall reliability. Benz cars are not what they used to. My BMW's haven't been worse than my MB.

[rogerdiaz]

Originally Posted by 135i_vs_

Can you please share a copy of your last BMW receipt? Curious to see what the SA wrote on it and what is the exact problem you are having.

Since you have been there 4x, I am guessing DDE issues for SES light.

Car is on week 5. As soon as I get documentation I will attach.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Socom i agree with you my mechanic deals with ALL European cars and one thing he told me and the rest of the crew was STAY AWAY from MB, quality is down and parts expensive, they showed me a 2007 AMG Convertible and they pointed out the its electrical cables and they were ALL either rotten or in bad shape they then made me pry my hood and look at my 02 MCS and look at the electrical cable, by far my Mini's electrical system was in better shape almost new like compared to MB which BTW was WAy more expensive and a newer car by 5 years and way less mileage than my 85k on the odometer of the Mini.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

Socom i agree with you my mechanic deals with ALL European cars and one thing he told me and the rest of the crew was STAY AWAY from MB, quality is down and parts expensive, they showed me a 2007 AMG Convertible and they pointed out the its electrical cables and they were ALL either rotten or in bad shape they then made me pry my hood and look at my 02 MCS and look at the electrical cable, by far my Mini's electrical system was in better shape almost new like compared to MB which BTW was WAy more expensive and a newer car by 5 years and way less mileage than my 85k on the odometer of the Mini.

Mercedes had a bad batch of cables in those years apparently due to the German requirement for biodegradable or recyclable plastics. My mechanic told me that they wear prematurely in some cases and may be susceptible to moisture.

[Got_Diesel]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Mercedes had a bad batch of cables in those years apparently due to the German requirement for biodegradable or recyclable plastics. My mechanic told me that they wear prematurely in some cases and may be susceptible to moisture.

MB was known for having a bad batch of biodegradable cables in the 90's.

I heard horror stories of an MB 55amg motored car needing a new turbo, costing over 5 grand in repairs.

The values of those early 2000 model year amg cars are worth barely anything compared to what they used to cost brand new.

[rogerdiaz]

Originally Posted by 135i_vs_

Can you please share a copy of your last BMW receipt? Curious to see what the SA wrote on it and what is the exact problem you are having.

Since you have been there 4x, I am guessing DDE issues for SES light.

This is my most recent visit. I have others.

You asked. SA showed me costs on her computer; she could not provide me cost documents. ~$18,000. Didn't have car 35 days.

Picked up Friday Sep 6. Light is back on and now car shakes when I accelerate. Dropping off again tomorrow.

JAG is reviewing my repair history.

[135i_vs_]

Originally Posted by rogerdiaz

This is my most recent visit. I have others.

You asked. SA showed me costs on her computer; she could not provide me cost documents. ~$18,000. Didn't have car 35 days.

Picked up Friday Sep 6. Light is back on and now car shakes when I accelerate. Dropping off again tomorrow.

JAG is reviewing my repair history.

I want to say, that is great news (new engine! )
Now tell them to go ahead and fix what the real problem is in the first place (DDE).

[rogerdiaz]

Originally Posted by 135i_vs_

I want to say, that is great news (new engine! )
Now tell them to go ahead and fix what the real problem is in the first place (DDE).

That's what they told me I got...but the odometer still says 85,000 miles. confused.

[Hoooper]

It would be illegal to change the odometer reading, it reflects the mileage on the chassis, not individual parts