[Kelvin1000]

I really do we wish we could just discuss and compare these products in a civilized way. I have said many times that there is room in the market for both: one is more expensive, less powerful but more stable and with a warranty and another is cheaper, more dynamically upgradable and on the cutting edge of power.

In this forum, talking about ECU upgrades is like talking about religion or politics...it ALWAYS turns into an argument where we make asses of ourselves.

[5soko]

well why dont we compare a PROcede v.147 and v2 that was on the same dyno, stock, on 91 octane, with close to the same conditions, so we can have a rough estimate.
i think the dinan flash can make as much tq as the v2 and slightly less hp, but that is yet to be proved i guess.

and yes, the graph terry posted, was a v2 on 93 octane, made more WHP than the dinan flash but less WTQ. thats why im waiting for a equal octane stock car within the same conditions to show up so we can have a est.

[scottp999]

Thanks for the info Shiv. Too bad the discussion degraded so much.

For those considering tunes, if you can get a Dinan tune of 93 octane to get you to 330whp and you don't want to get into the ecu box and mess with wires, then go for it. I think it is best for you.

If you want another 30 whp and don't mind the hands on approach needed, go for the procede v2. With procede you have to be willing to have patience during the install and working through any minor issues that may come up. I highly recommend procede for the "hands on" person.

[5soko]

40-50whp more? i think the v2 on 93 octane makes about 15WHP more or so. just asking, where did u get 40-50WHP more.

[cn555ic]

Yeah V2 so far i have seen only makes 20 whp give or take a little with 93 octane...but gives the opportunity to increase with the different custom maps in the future...I think V2.03 will be here soon and the difference will be significant around 30 whp

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by x26

You forgot to mention:

Proceed=
Loss of Warrantty
Limited R&D
Lack of Nationwide Brick & Mortar Support
No Deep Pockets to Get Damages paid

Dinan=
Multi-million $$ co(in case anything goes wrong)
Support From your BMW/Dinan Dealer/ one in the same for most...
Does NOT void your Warranty


Proceed sounds like a real poor deal if your an educated consumer...
So you "Save " $750.00 but lose your BMW warranty($48,000.00 car)
Sorry but if that's a good deal to you, I really feel sorry for you.

I don't know where you live, buddy, but if you ask around, you'll find that many BMW SA's, Tech's, and other BMW dealer employees currently drive modded 335i's with either the PROcede, XEDE, JB2, or SSTT piggyback computers. And, those that don't, most have ZERO problems working on these modded vehicles. They understand the tuning capabilities of this car (and others with the N54 F/I tt engine), and they are willing to work with most customers who do NOT abuse their cars, but just want to go faster by adding these mods.

BMW is fully aware that these piggybacks typically will not screw up your car; heck, even Dinan and BMW themselves are now admitting that boost and mapping can be considerably tweaked by offering ECU Flashes to vastly improve the performance of the 335i (and 535i, 135i, X6, and soon X5). In addition, some BMW dealers actually offer the SSTT (Turbo Tuner) mod for the 335i.

Your 'you will lose your warranty' argument does NOT fly here, b/c there has only been a couple of guys that we know of that have had warranty disputes...out of thousands!!!! From what I've seen firsthand, the BMW employees are just as excited as we are about ALL the tuning options available for this car. Even if you do not have a 'mod friendly' dealer, then you can always simply remove the piggyback when you take your car in for service, but most ppl here do not have to do that, especially when your car just goes in for routine maintenance or non engine-related issues...it's really no big deal.

btw -- not sure about your car, but mine listed for $53,000.

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe

40-50whp more? i think the v2 on 93 octane makes about 15WHP more or so. just asking, where did u get 40-50WHP more.

I agree 40whp may be a little high. Looking at the Dinan number on 93 octane and adding 8whp for their exhaust (342+8) then they are a 350whp on a Dynopack.

Shiv's Dyno at 94% tq settings and 93 octane with his exhaust was 378hp on a Dynojet.

So almost 30whp difference, but with the use of diffrent types of dyno machines. Shiv's car also had a "cone" type air filter intake.

Dinan's numbers: http://www.dinancars.com/filepreview...A%20EDITED.pdf

Shiv's numbers: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100073

I don't know much about the different types of Dynos, but here is something I found:

"What we found, from our two-wheel-drive tests, is that the Dynapack and Dynojet give surprisingly similar readings. If you compare a 7-second pull on the Dynapack with a third-gear pull on the Dynojet (which happens to take 9 seconds), the charts agree to within about 2 hp. The same is true when comparing a 15-second pull on the Dynapack with a fourth-gear pull on the Dynojet (fourth gear, in this case, takes about 17 seconds). The agreement between dynos was similar on both cars."

From: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ed..._technobabble/

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by orientblue3

Dinan new to the 335 arena? I'm pretty sure they did more R&D on their flash than Procede, JB, Xede, etc. have done combined. They have to since they are backing the flash with a warranty and none of those other manufacturers even think about that.

Well, Dinan started doing their R&D on their ECU Flash several months after Shiv began adapting the old XEDE piggyback to the 335i, and months after Shiv already had hundreds of piggyback'd 335i's running around, so no, I don't think so. It's just that Dinan has more $$ resources and more ppl, but the fact is they entered the 335i tuning ballgame in the bottom of the 8th inning.

Given the fact that the N54 F/I tt engine in the 335i is all new for '07, you can't say Dinan knows more about tuning this engine than Shiv, especially given the time they've had working with the car vs. Shiv's time with the car.

[savyboy]

I got the Dinan flash yesterday, and live in Livermore. My car is an A/T and I would be glad to put it on the dyno. Shiv, or whoever, message me and lets set it up?

Yesterday was rainy and I only drove 45 miles, so not able to give a detailed report, but I would agree the first 30-40% throttle doesn't feel a lot different. It does seem smoother, and so far that annoying "hesitate and jerk" that sometimes occurs when starting off from a full stop is not the there.

So far, it does feel to me like it really comes alive at 60%+ throttle opening. Attempting rolling full throttle from 30-40 mph on a damp (but not wet) road lights the traction control light immediately and keeps it lit.

Response at the larger throttle openings is without a doubt a big change from stock. Much less so than with smaller opening.

Agreed with previous poster that lower rpm initiated boost must inevitably result in decreased fuel economy in "daily" driving. So I don't so much mind the meat of the performance gain push further out on the rpm band. If I want the boost I can reach for it, with (theoretically) no daily driving MPG penalties.

AND- traction, especially in the wet, is already a problem (on our 1 wheel drive cars), so more torque at lower rpms would be of questionable benefit, yes?

More comments after I spend more time with it. BTW I am not a "fanboy" of any manufacturer, no dog in any of the fights

Cheers,
Pete

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by savyboy

I got the Dinan flash yesterday, and live in Livermore. My car is an A/T and I would be glad to put it on the dyno. Shiv, or whoever, message me and lets set it up?

Yesterday was rainy and I only drove 45 miles, so not able to give a detailed report, but I would agree the first 30-40% throttle doesn't feel a lot different. It does seem smoother, and so far that annoying "hesitate and jerk" that sometimes occurs when starting off from a full stop is not the there.

So far, it does feel to me like it really comes alive at 60%+ throttle opening. Attempting rolling full throttle from 30-40 mph on a damp (but not wet) road lights the traction control light immediately and keeps it lit.

Response at the larger throttle openings is without a doubt a big change from stock. Much less so than with smaller opening.

Agreed with previous poster that lower rpm initiated boost must inevitably result in decreased fuel economy in "daily" driving. So I don't so much mind the meat of the performance gain push further out on the rpm band. If I want the boost I can reach for it, with (theoretically) no daily driving MPG penalties.

AND- traction, especially in the wet, is already a problem (on our 1 wheel drive cars), so more torque at lower rpms would be of questionable benefit, yes?

More comments after I spend more time with it. BTW I am not a "fanboy" of any manufacturer, no dog in any of the fights

Cheers,
Pete

Nice; get it up on a dyno and enjoy your Dinan 335i.

[cn555ic]

Dinan may be a good tune, but for me i want to feel instant throttle response the moment i press the throttle and Procede offers that from 5% throttle....I don't know if i would like throttle response to be felt from 60%....Procede 60% throttle is like a rocket ship already...But i guess Dinan wants to really keep in line with driveability, but the type of driveability i prefer is the one that Procede offers...

[remydlc]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Dinan may be a good tune, but for me i want to feel instant throttle response the moment i press the throttle and Procede offers that from 5% throttle....I don't know if i would like throttle response to be felt from 60%....Procede 60% throttle is like a rocket ship already...But i guess Dinan wants to really keep in line with driveability, but the type of driveability i prefer is the one that Procede offers...

Well, you also have the option of doing something similiar with P.V2 with the User Tunable Parameters. , other piggybacks and software flash does not come with that option.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe

well why dont we compare a PROcede v.147 and v2 that was on the same dyno, stock, on 91 octane, with close to the same conditions, so we can have a rough estimate.
i think the dinan flash can make as much tq as the v2 and slightly less hp, but that is yet to be proved i guess.

and yes, the graph terry posted, was a v2 on 93 octane, made more WHP than the dinan flash but less WTQ. thats why im waiting for a equal octane stock car within the same conditions to show up so we can have a est.

Just to be cliear here, the dyno Terry posted of the v2 was an awefully low reading dyno. There was a Turbo Tuner dynoed right before him and I think it made like 296 rwhp on that dyno.

My 6AT 335i with PROcede v2 dyno on 92 Octane with conservative 92% settings (making only 13.8-13.9 psi boost) and a simple K&N drop in made:
345 rwhp
353 rwtq

On v1.47 with the exact same set up (6AT, K&N drop in) I did:
336 rwhp
368 rwtq

And on a different dyno, with different 335i on PROcede v1.4 ONLY car I made:
313 rwhp
358 rwtq

Those can be used as comparisons too, but again different dynos.

I also don't know why people (Dinan supporters) are blasting Shiv for doing this dyno comparison. It was a fair and accurate side by side comparison, though the v2 car had a mod (catback exhaust) that the Dinan car didn't.
Further, competitors DO comparisons.
Do you guys bash a car manufacturer when they take their competitors car to a track to compare it to theirs in a side by side, same day, same track comparison? I doubt it.
How else do you propose they do fair and accurate comparisons?

I would have to guess that if the Dinan flash did not exist, 1/2 of the people who got the Dinan flash so far would be either PROcede, Xede, or JB2 customers and standing behind their choice then, the other 1/2 would remain stock because they didn't want to take a chance losing their warranty or dealing with installation and removal of the piggyback.
Eitherway, doubtful they'd be bashing Shiv in that matter then, for doing this comparison, or for any other reason. They might actually be thanking him FOR blazing the trail of ECU tuning of our wonderful cars.

There is no reason to constantly bash.
The Dinan tune is a good viable option. Why can't people just accept that it looks like (as expected) it would make decent power, but not up to the PROcede v2 power levels. It makes LESS boost, of course it's going to make less power, that's a no brainer.

Cheers.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Driver72

Just to be cliear here, the dyno Terry posted of the v2 was an awefully low reading dyno. There was a Turbo Tuner dynoed right before him and I think it made like 296 rwhp on that dyno.

My 6AT 335i with PROcede v2 dyno on 92 Octane with conservative 92% settings (making only 13.8-13.9 psi boost) and a simple K&N drop in made:
345 rwhp
353 rwtq

On v1.47 with the exact same set up (6AT, K&N drop in) I did:
336 rwhp
368 rwtq

And on a different dyno, with different 335i on PROcede v1.4 ONLY car I made:
313 rwhp
358 rwtq

Those can be used as comparisons too, but again different dynos.

I also don't know why people (Dinan supporters) are blasting Shiv for doing this dyno comparison. It was a fair and accurate side by side comparison, though the v2 car had a mod (catback exhaust) that the Dinan car didn't.
Further, competitors DO comparisons.
Do you guys bash a car manufacturer when they take their competitors car to a track to compare it to theirs in a side by side, same day, same track comparison? I doubt it.
How else do you propose they do fair and accurate comparisons?

I would have to guess that if the Dinan flash did not exist, 1/2 of the people who got the Dinan flash so far would be either PROcede, Xede, or JB2 customers and standing behind their choice then, the other 1/2 would remain stock because they didn't want to take a chance losing their warranty or dealing with installation and removal of the piggyback.
Eitherway, doubtful they'd be bashing Shiv in that matter then, for doing this comparison, or for any other reason. They might actually be thanking him FOR blazing the trail of ECU tuning of our wonderful cars.

There is no reason to constantly bash.
The Dinan tune is a good viable option. Why can't people just accept that it looks like (as expected) it would make decent power, but not up to the PROcede v2 power levels. It makes LESS boost, of course it's going to make less power, that's a no brainer.

Cheers.

I appreciate your post Driver72, you make good points. I don't think anyone here is arguing that Dinan makes more hp than V2 (athough I would love to see a stock for stock, same octane comparison except for the Flash and Piggyback on the same day). Higher the boost = Higher HP and potential problems. I would love an adjustable map with my Dinan tune, but I'm a 100% settings kind of guy so Dinan has to babysit me on that one. Further, I just wanted an insurance policy/warranty.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Shadyg

I appreciate your post Driver72, you make good points. I don't think anyone here is arguing that Dinan makes more hp than V2 (athough I would love to see a stock for stock comparison except for the Flash and Piggyback) on the same day. Higher the boost = Higher HP and potential problems. I would love an adjustable map with my Dinan tune, but I'm a 100% settings kind of guy so Dinan has to babysit me on that one. Further, I just wanted an insurance policy/warranty.

I too would like to see a Dinan flash vs PROcede v2 only car, no other power mods.

If anybody in the So. Cal area gets a dyno flash and wants to do this comparison, let me know.
I will put my stock air filter back in and we can head to the dyno.
They'd preferably need to have a 6AT tranny, not a 6MT since that's what I have.
But even if it's a 6MT, many, many dyno tests have shown on average the 6MT makes 5-8 rwhp and rwtq more than the 6AT, so we could always just take away say 6-7 rwhp/rwtq from the 6MT car and call it even.


BTW, I was in your shoes many years ago myself.
When I got my VW GTI 1.8T (9th person in California to get one back in 2000 ) chip tunes started coming out for them.
I didn't want to lose my warranty and worried about fusing with it.
So I never did it.

It wasn't until a couple cars later when I got my Subaru Legacy GT that I decided I'd give the "chip" tuning a try. Got the Cobb Accessport, for the simple reason I could flash it myself and take it back to stock MYSELF at anytime and not worry about the service.

With the 335i, that wasn't an option. I wanted the PROcede, it was the only option when it came out, and because it was from Shiv (well known in the STI and EVO world for tuning). Again, I was one of the first to get the PROcede in their cars.
Taking it out for service was more of a challenge then simply reflashing but hey, there was no choice in the matter.

In a perfect world, a handheld reflash computer (like the Cobb Accessport) would be the best of both worlds.
Updates could be downloaded into the computer and then flashed via the OBD port (again like the Accessport).

And going in for service would mean a simple 30 second reflash back to stock.
But I respect anybody who doesn't want to have to worry about their warranty and chooses the Dinan for that reason.
I don't worry about my warranty either, because I'd simply remove the PROcede before taking the car in, even if that means removing it on the roadside and putting it in a bag.
However, those that choose the Dinan for the warranty and so forth, don't need to bash the PROcede or be upset because the Dinan appears to make less power. That was expected because it makes less boost.

It's a trade off. Could Dinan of made a 14.5 psi tune, sure, but they wanted to play it REALLY safe I'm sure, since they would be the one's paying for ANY powertrain issues that come up on their flashed cars, regardless if it was the fault of having 14.5 psi's or not. So they found a nice power gain that gave good, safe power increases and nice driveability. That just happened to get an end result of 13.2 psi peak.

Happy motoring.

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by sflgator

It's just that Dinan has more $$ resources and more ppl, but the fact is they entered the 335i tuning ballgame in the bottom of the 8th inning.

Gator, tell me something. Have you ever, honestly, owned any other car that you modified significantly to make faster and is this also your first turbocharged vehicle? Reason I ask is that you make some absolutely hilarious comments that peg you as a noob in the aftermarket tuning world.

If you think that a company coming out with an actual reflash a year after a vehicle is released and going against the "established" piggybacks is coming "in at the bottom of the 8th" you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This cycle repeats itself EVERY single time a new platform is released. To date, guess which tuning option evaporates every time: The piggybacks.

Be assured that when GIAC shows up, its not going to be all fun and games for the piggies.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by A418t81

Gator, tell me something. Have you ever, honestly, owned any other car that you modified significantly to make faster and is this also your first turbocharged vehicle? Reason I ask is that you make some absolutely hilarious comments that peg you as a noob in the aftermarket tunining world.

If you think that a company coming out with an actual reflash a year after a vehicle is released and going against the "established" piggybacks is coming "in at the bottom of the 8th" you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This cycle repeats itself EVERY single time a new platform is released. To date, guess which tuning option evaporates every time: The piggybacks.

Be assured that when GIAC shows up, its not going to be all fun and games for the piggies.

Not my first modded car, but the 335i is my first F/I car though. I understand what you're saying, but for some ppl (like myself), the piggyback option is currently still the best option...for the most HP/TQ that's transferable to my next 335i in ~ 16 months. My car is on a very high mileage (20k mi./yr.), short-term lease (30-month), and by 50k mi., I'll be moving on to my one...most likely with the PROcede v2 and my wheels/tires. I surely do not want to spend ~ $4,200 in 3 years for 2 ECU Flashes on 2 cars...not exactly 'the best bang for my buck.'

Now, if GIAC, Dinan, or BMW prove that their ECU Flashes make similar HP/TQ to the PROcede v2 and are similarly priced as the piggyback (or less????), then I would consider that option as well. But for now, I stick with what I've got, and keep that huge grin I have on my face every minute I'm driving my PROcede v2 335i.

btw -- I would agree with the guy who mentioned that having an option like the Cobb ODBII Port Flash would be the best of both worlds; an ECU Flash (without any ECU wire interception like the piggybacks) that could be updated by the end-user with newer, better, more powerful maps at no add'l charge...That would be the ultimate, imho!

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Not my first modded car, but the 335i is my first F/I car though. I understand what you're saying, but for some ppl (like myself), the piggyback option is currently still the best option...for the most HP/TQ that's transferable to my next 335i in ~ 16 months. My car is on a very high mileage (20k mi./yr.), short-term lease (30-month), and by 50k mi., I'll be moving on to my one...most likely with the PROcede v2 and my wheels/tires.

Now, if GIAC, Dinan, or BMW prove that their ECU Flashes make similar HP/TQ to the PROcede v2 and are similarly priced as the piggyback (or less????), then I would consider that option as well. But for now, I stick with what I've got, and keep that huge grin I have on my face every minute I'm driving my PROcede 335i.

btw -- I would agree with the guy who mentioned that having an option like the Cobb ODBII Port Flash would be the best of both worlds; an ECU Flash (without any ECU wire interception like the piggybacks) that could be updated by the end-user with newer, better, more powerful maps at no add'l charge...That would be the ultimate, imho!

+1

[elguevon]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Because some people (like me) prefer a trouble free AA Xede, 1.47 or Dinan to a less stable though more powerful Version 2.0x. The difference is cost is for the speed limiter removal, the easy of install and most importantly, the warranty.

It is a matter of preference and besides, whats another 600 dollars on a 50K car?

+1000

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Not my first modded car, but the 335i is my first F/I car though. I understand what you're saying, but for some ppl (like myself), the piggyback option is currently still the best option...for the most HP/TQ that's transferable to my next 335i in ~ 16 months. My car is on a very high mileage (20k mi./yr.), short-term lease (30-month), and by 50k mi., I'll be moving on to my one...most likely with the PROcede v2 and my wheels/tires. I surely do not want to spend ~ $4,200 in 3 years for 2 ECU Flashes on 2 cars...not exactly 'the best bang for my buck.'

Now, if GIAC, Dinan, or BMW prove that their ECU Flashes make similar HP/TQ to the PROcede v2 and are similarly priced as the piggyback (or less????), then I would consider that option as well. But for now, I stick with what I've got, and keep that huge grin I have on my face every minute I'm driving my PROcede v2 335i.

btw -- I would agree with the guy who mentioned that having an option like the Cobb ODBII Port Flash would be the best of both worlds; an ECU Flash (without any ECU wire interception like the piggybacks) that could be updated by the end-user with newer, better, more powerful maps at no add'l charge...That would be the ultimate, imho!

Yes, one of the piggie's greatest advantages is that it a mobile device, so for your needs its probably the best option if you are going to pick up another 335 in the near future.

I'm interested to see what GIAC comes out with. They have a history of being fairly aggressive, should be fun to watch.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by A418t81

Yes, one of the piggie's greatest advantages is that it a mobile device, so for your needs its probably the best option if you are going to pick up another 335 in the near future.

I'm interested to see what GIAC comes out with. They have a history of being fairly aggressive, should be fun to watch.

I am interested too. If the GIAC ECU Flash is as powerful as the PROcede v2 (with zero issues like the Dinan ECU Flash) and if the price is better than the Dinan ECU Flash, I think many ppl would consider it. The only problem there is that you have to remove your ECU and ship it to them for ~ 2-3 day turnaround without your car.

[stillclaimndp]

Originally Posted by canesr1

Of course you think that...it favors your product by far. Why else would a competitor post anothers tuners #'s. Nice way of trying to bash another tuner. Only problem is, dinan does NOT go into limp mode frequently like your v2. And if by some chance it does, bmw will give me a loaner until the problem is fixed.

um, frequently? I haven't gotten a single limp with the new map... i had 1 on a map months ago and that map has since been replaced, check your stats.