[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Chriztofor

Ok, there is no way I am reading six pages of threads over this battle over approved v. non-approved oil. I just have one question. If the other "non-approved" oil is so good and so expensive why don't they just get the LL01 approval stamp on it. That would end all debates on this topic.

Aside from using a more expensive base oil such as PAO and/or Ester it's all about the additive levels.

In order to protect/prolong the life of emissions systems (think the DPF and SCR system on the BMW diesels for example) the ACEA/API ratings in recent years have set maximium levels of zinc and phosphorus (well known anti-wear additives). In addition in many states the OEM's are on the hook for warranty repairs to the emissions systems which are well outside their factory warranty of 4yrs.

The boutique oils (Redline, RP, AMS) have additives which are in excess of these new limits. Not overly so, but in excess nonetheless. These companies know this so there's no need for them to have their oil tested. The OEM's won't certify these oils because they're beholden to the ACEA/API standards so it's a waste of their time.

If you want to research theses differences then go here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...oard=11&page=1

A good example of an expensive PAO based motor oil is Motul X-Clean C3 and it sells for ~$12/liter. Conversly Motul also sells group III LL04 oil which is simply labeled as "LL04" and sells for ~$7/liter. Motul obtained the 'official' LL04 certification for their Low-SAPS oils from BMW. As you can see, both are LL04 yet both have different base oils and different prices.

Good luck.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Socom -

^^^^^^ I knew you'd be back...

The boutique oils have been around for decades before the current low zinc / phosphorus ACEA/API standards and CAT concerns, so it's highly unlikely that is the issue with certification of boutique oils to car maker oil specs. There are far more vehicles on the road that have oil requirements without low zinc / phosphorus specs than with, so the market is huge for Euro cars and that is why all of the reputable Euro oil suppliers have their oils tested and certified.

Besides U.S. BMW models require that (according to Turkey), "outdated" LL-01 oil spec so the booty oils should be submitted for testing so we all know what they are good for or not.

I was just answering his question since he asked about it now. At least he has an answer.

As for Turkey's LL01 comments I think you're misunderstanding him. His 335i requires LL01 we all know that, but what you may not know is that the Oil part number listed in his engine bay is for Euro Castrol Edge (PAO). The oil part number in the engine bay for a 328 is supposedly not the same as what appears in the 335i but for the previous gen Castrol 5w30 (BMW branded 5w-30, but I think it's TXT).

Technically in the U.S. all LL01 non-M BMW gassers should have the same oil part # in their engine bay but in this case they do not.

So what he's trying to tell you is that not all LL01 oils are the same and that the BMW oil specification is probably overly broad to encompass a lot of oils. Add an oil that meets mutiple OEM specifications (M1 ESP 5w-30 meets about 6 different OEMs) then you have to start wondering if these OEM bench test are really all that special after all.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

I know full well what Turkey is saying and unfortunately his beliefs are unfounded. THAT is why the car makers actually run the oil test sequence so they don't need to speculate. It's not the base oil stock that counts it's the lubrication performance in the engine that counts.

The fact that M1 ESP 5W-30 can be formulated to meet various diff OEM specs is no surprise at all. Many of the Euro oil specs are based on the ACEA A3/B4 oil spec. ACEA is a group of Euro car maker reps who determine the common oil requirements of Euro engines. If you're competent you can develop a formulation that meets this and the additional oil requirements for a variety of other applications as Mobil Europe has done. Mobil U.S. uses completely different formulations primarily for cost savings and none of their oils meet BMW LL-01/LL-04 or most other Euro car maker specs.

Around and around we go but we still end up with the same reality. Tea Leaves and MSDS sheets can't change reality.

The folks who worship at the alter of PAO oils should petition their favorite Booty oil companies to get their oils certified to Euro car maker stds. It can only be good for sales and their reputation. They certainly should be able to formulate their oils to meet the Euro car makes specs if they are competent.

Exactly.

So what is your guess as to why in the U.S. the LL01 oils used in the 328 and 335i are different (ie. different part #)?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

ANY LL-01 approved oil of the proper viscosity is acceptable for gas engine BMW models sold in the U.S. from 2006 on per the OM. The oil requirements in the 328 and 335i are not different in the U.S.

The caps may be different as they are typically for ROW vehicles but the oil requirement in the U.S. in the same for the 335 and 328. ROW may be different based on oils available to BMW dealers in different geographic areas? You'd have to ask BMW Germany to get an answer on why the "caps" have different info. The warranty info. in the OM is what is important not the oil cap which may not be relevant for different markets such as the U.S.

I think the question is whether some LL01's are 'better' for certain non-M models.

This is Turkeys Part NO# 07.51-0.002 545 Apparently per the UK chaps it's a BMW 40w now when I walk into a dealership in the US and say I need LL01 oil the guys would point to the 5w-30 BMW oil.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

It may be that the particular part number is an xW-40 oil? Who knows? BMW can source their oil from various Castrol production facilities for different markets. Maybe in the UK they use a different Castrol oil source than in Germany? We know Castrol and Mobil U.S. oils are different formulations than Castrol/Mobil U.K. oils. We just don't know the details of the different info. regarding oil part numbers. It may only mean that the U.K. source produces an xW-40 for BMW dealers and not a xW-30 that meets BMW specs?

That part number is NOT for a XW40, its for a 5W30, made in Europe. 0W40 is from the USA made mobil 1, which you want us to use. I just wanted to add here that I'm not even sure that the E46/E90/92 M3's are using an oil that is BMW LL01 approved: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...hIc5IBs5KawdFw They say its recommended for M engines, but I don't see the BMW LL01 anywhere on the spec. Its also highly doubtful its on the label. The castrol is PAO based though Also since you are in love with what the BMWUSA website sez, look closely at this document: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...I9OHsEv7pg5RQQ it looks like BMW LL01 5W30 part number 07510017866 must not be used in M models. I would even add that is should not be used in the N54, considering its abnormally quick degredation.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

^^^^ M models are suppose to use 10W-60 LL-01 oils. This is old news. It's been this way for years.
ANY LL-01 approved oil of the proper viscosity as listed in the OM and on the BMW official website is appropriate for BMW gas engines operated in the U.S. from model year 2006 onward and these oils comply with BMW NA warranty requirements.
You should know ALL of this by now. Did you forget since yesterday?

Yes, and Castrol 10W 60 TWS, sold in stealerships is NOT LL01 approved. Its not written on the back of the product either. So, why is it being recommended by BMW? also, BMW 5W30 synthetic LL01 part number 07510017866 available at the dealership, is NOT the right oil, for the N54, as the correct part number has been etched on the vehicle.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

That part number is NOT for a XW40, its for a 5W30, made in Europe. 0W40 is from the USA made mobil 1, which you want us to use. I just wanted to add here that I'm not even sure that the E46/E90/92 M3's are using an oil that is BMW LL01 approved: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...hIc5IBs5KawdFw They say its recommended for M engines, but I don't see the BMW LL01 anywhere on the spec. Its also highly doubtful its on the label. The castrol is PAO based though Also since you are in love with what the BMWUSA website sez, look closely at this document: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...I9OHsEv7pg5RQQ it looks like BMW LL01 5W30 part number 07510017866 must not be used in M models. I would even add that is should not be used in the N54, considering its abnormally quick degredation.

We're talking this part# 07.51-0.002 545. The one of your car in the photo.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

We're talking this part# 07.51-0.002 545. The one of your car in the photo.

Whats the part number of your car? I think what the dealership is relabeling for you guys is Total Ineo Mc3 5W30.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Whats the part number of your car? I think what the dealership is relabeling for you guys is Total Ineo Mc3 5W30.

Mine is for the Castrol SLX LL04 (I drive a diesel afterall)

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Wrong on all counts... Neither the genuine BMW 5W-30 nor 10W-60 oils sold in the U.S. show LL-01 approval on the bottle but that does not mean they aren't. The oil containers state these oils are for ALL BMW applications, which means that for all practical purposes these oils must be LL-01 approved to meet U.S. warranty requirements.

Why do you continue the nonsense?

The U.S. warranty REQUIRES an LL-01 approved oil of the proper viscosity. If you want to use CB1111's maple syrup and cottage cheese oil mix it's OK with me. It don't change reality. The warranty info. provided with your vehicle is a binding contract and you have both obligations and rights. Do what makes you happy.

This thread became too comical......

[Belarus]

[ENINTY]

I think the Sun is going to die out before this thread is over...

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Wrong on all counts... Neither the genuine BMW 5W-30 nor 10W-60 oils sold in the U.S. show LL-01 approval on the bottle but that does not mean they aren't. The oil containers state these oils are for ALL BMW applications, which means that for all practical purposes these oils must be LL-01 approved to meet U.S. warranty requirements.

So let me get this straight, none of the oils sold in dealerships have the LL01 testing written on the label. Even in the case of 10W60, BMW LL01 is no where to be found on the castrol label, either. Yet you keep hammering on about how redline, amsoil, and royal purple are inferior, simply because they don't have the LL01, on their label? Glad, its obvious, that you no shred of credibility left. An outdated testing sequence, does not mean that the oil, goes in your BMW, because each BMW has a separate dealership oil part number, from germany, proving that different engines require different weight oils, and oil formulations.

[Belarus]

[u2b]4W1Qpw8rSnE&feature=relatedding[/u2b]

[cb1111]

Don't feed the troll. TB just wants to cause trouble.

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Don't feed the troll. TB just wants to cause trouble.

It's too much fun NOT too...

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Denial has never changed reality nor has Tea Leaves, MSDS sheets or technical ignorance.


TURKEY-

You should read these links from your hallowed BITOG website so that you have some technical knowledge on the subject:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=50&Itemid=56

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...onth&Itemid=71

Why do you always want to confuse the issue with facts?

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Denial has never changed reality nor has Tea Leaves, MSDS sheets or technical ignorance.


TURKEY-

You should read these links from your hallowed BITOG website so that you have some technical knowledge on the subject:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=50&Itemid=56

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...onth&Itemid=71

This is your follow up to my last response? WEAK.

[jimk]

Please post something! I'm getting oil withdrawals....

[jimk]

I feel better now, after I sniffed a bottle of RL 5W-30....:-))

I have a question, why does the BMW 5w-30 oil bottle doesn't say LL-01 on it?

[jimk]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

We stop feeding the Turkeys at noon time.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Because it says "for use in ALL BMW engines" meaning it was properly formulated per BMW's request. You still need to use the proper viscosity so this is not the correct oil for M engines which require 10W-60.

isn't that silly. BMW states that, but you shouldn't use it in M engines? contradiction? This also means the formulation was not "LL-01" tested, therefore LL-01, is not an exclusive requirement for BMW engines.