[bmwzimmer]

Originally Posted by b335i

All of this data is very interesting. hopefully someone will be able to compare the v2 vs. dinan on a bone stock car. I am up in the air about which tune I want to do, as the PROcede has voided at least one persons warranty and was not completely "transparent." I just got my car on 12/28 so I have a bit until it is broken in.

Does Dinan ever come out with flash updates? Seems like they could have done a bit better, without putting the engine components at risk.

Yea, the guy uninstalled the procede but did not put the solenoid hoses back in place.

[T Bone]

It is going to get progressively harder to flash BMW ECUs..... They have encryption, embedded flash in the CPU etc.... interrelated subsystems etc.

Shiv needs to hire a couple of systems level software engineers to do a flash properly.

Even Dinan doesn't provide the PT-CAN cables to its dealers..... So if someone smart could program the ECU and sell the cable, it would have a winner for the BMW.

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

BMW owners are different from EVO owners in that they care too much about getting their warranty voided.

Flash = Voided Warranty, 100% no way around it.
Piggy = If properly installed/uninstalled. It is fully transparent.
Why is this important to the BMW market vs. the Evo market?

Repair bills

Good LUCK getting your Fuel pump replaced with your FLASHED ECU. It will cost you a at least 2K out of pocket.
How much is that N54 motor compared to the Evo motor you can pick up just about anywhere used or new?

This is why there will always be more of a piggyback market for higher end applications.

1. Evo owners are hardly different. The Evo cannot be leased, so every Evo owner you see bought their cars outright. A fairly expensive, niche car (with parts every bit as expensive as a BMW) without a warranty is hardly a good thing..and we knew that. You are delusional if you think that owning a BMW makes you different than an Evo owner.

2. Flashing ECUs: The BMW ECU will never have a system like the Evo. Its too work intensive to crack the encryption, decode the rom, get around the "anti mod" tricks, etc. Its a cat and mouse game with tuners and warranty. Always has been, probably always will be.

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by M3EST

The procede can be taken out and sold.The flash not.

LOL, dude with the Dinan your warranty is in tact, thereby rendering removing/replacing piggybacks pointless...

Although some parts and mods from tuners are always skeptical in my book, regardless of the amount of time ive been on this forum, ive been on plenty others. A tuner w/ a reputation for providing and backing their claims on paper w/ a warranty will always have my business. Why take a chance?

[purplewidow]

Originally Posted by A418t81

1. Evo owners are hardly different. The Evo cannot be leased, so every Evo owner you see bought their cars outright. A fairly expensive, niche car (with parts every bit as expensive as a BMW) without a warranty is hardly a good thing..and we knew that. You are delusional if you think that owning a BMW makes you different than an Evo owner.

2. Flashing ECUs: The BMW ECU will never have a system like the Evo. Its too work intensive to crack the encryption, decode the rom, get around the "anti mod" tricks, etc. Its a cat and mouse game with tuners and warranty. Always has been, probably always will be.

eveo interior and chassis and a bunch of other parts are no where near the quality of this bmw...my friend has an sti the other an evo and both marvel about how much better the quality of the car is for 8k more bone stock it comes with more features...the 335 has so much more than speed and handeling!!! ride quality sucks ass in both the rally rockets as well..the inside sounds like your in a single engine cesna!!! seriously they suck..the wind noise i horrendous!!! but love both for the track and that's about it...exterior looks like crapp as well...the 335 offers so much more

[vase330]

How is your Dinan going? Knowing what you know now, would you still get it if you had to all over again?

[Dan335i]

I owned two Evo,s before i bought my 335. I bought a new 03VIII (modded ) and traded it for an 06 BR350 IX. They are completely different cars that cant be compared.I,m not going to get into performance and which one gets the most for buck in terms of modding,etc. Of course the 335 is more luxurious and refined,but thats what its suppose to be along with its performance.The Evo is a raw performance car for drivers who dont want,need,or care about that sort of thing.I miss my BR350 every day,until i drive my 335i coupe,spt. pk,6MT,blk lthr.I wish i could have kept the Evo and also got the 335.But that couldnt happen.The 335i is probably the best car i,ve owned till now as far as luxury,comfort,and all around performance is concerned.But the Evo was the best RAW all around performance i have ever owned up untill now also.Like i said,two completely different cars that cant, and shouldnt be compared with each other.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by sflgator

$2,200 (Dinan ECU Flash + $200 labor) - $1,450 (PROcede v2 w/o C-Reader tool) = $750 difference.

And if you want to sell the flash/piggyback when you get rid of the car, or otherwise, the price difference then is whatever you sell your Procede for (i.e. $1500) vs $0 for the Dinan...since you can't sell it.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by Driver72

I too would like to see a Dinan flash vs PROcede v2 only car, no other power mods.

If anybody in the So. Cal area gets a dyno flash and wants to do this comparison, let me know.
I will put my stock air filter back in and we can head to the dyno.
They'd preferably need to have a 6AT tranny, not a 6MT since that's what I have.
But even if it's a 6MT, many, many dyno tests have shown on average the 6MT makes 5-8 rwhp and rwtq more than the 6AT, so we could always just take away say 6-7 rwhp/rwtq from the 6MT car and call it even.


BTW, I was in your shoes many years ago myself.
When I got my VW GTI 1.8T (9th person in California to get one back in 2000 ) chip tunes started coming out for them.
I didn't want to lose my warranty and worried about fusing with it.
So I never did it.

It wasn't until a couple cars later when I got my Subaru Legacy GT that I decided I'd give the "chip" tuning a try. Got the Cobb Accessport, for the simple reason I could flash it myself and take it back to stock MYSELF at anytime and not worry about the service.

With the 335i, that wasn't an option. I wanted the PROcede, it was the only option when it came out, and because it was from Shiv (well known in the STI and EVO world for tuning). Again, I was one of the first to get the PROcede in their cars.
Taking it out for service was more of a challenge then simply reflashing but hey, there was no choice in the matter.

In a perfect world, a handheld reflash computer (like the Cobb Accessport) would be the best of both worlds.
Updates could be downloaded into the computer and then flashed via the OBD port (again like the Accessport).

And going in for service would mean a simple 30 second reflash back to stock.
But I respect anybody who doesn't want to have to worry about their warranty and chooses the Dinan for that reason.
I don't worry about my warranty either, because I'd simply remove the PROcede before taking the car in, even if that means removing it on the roadside and putting it in a bag.
However, those that choose the Dinan for the warranty and so forth, don't need to bash the PROcede or be upset because the Dinan appears to make less power. That was expected because it makes less boost.

It's a trade off. Could Dinan of made a 14.5 psi tune, sure, but they wanted to play it REALLY safe I'm sure, since they would be the one's paying for ANY powertrain issues that come up on their flashed cars, regardless if it was the fault of having 14.5 psi's or not. So they found a nice power gain that gave good, safe power increases and nice driveability. That just happened to get an end result of 13.2 psi peak.

Happy motoring.

+1 for wishing we had an "Accessport" type deal for our cars. Man that was nice on the WRX...no laptop, no wires. Just plug that baby in the OBD2 and choose from the list...91 octane, 93 octance, economy map, valet map. or stock. 30 seconds later it's done.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

LOL, dude with the Dinan your warranty is in tact, thereby rendering removing/replacing piggybacks pointless...

Thereby rendering his original point all the more valid...there is no piggyback to take out (and sell), hence an instant sunk cost of thousands of dollars you will never see again.

[BMW///Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe

50 whp from a SSTT - $500

40 whp from a Dinan Flash - $2100+

Seeing Steve Dinan laugh all the way to the bank - PRICELESS!!!

Limp Mode no-boost driving b/c of SSTT for only $500 - A Steal! Literally

Except for the fact that steve dinan isn't the one laughing, his product works flawlessly but for a price. The SSTT guys are the ones laughing, there product delivers without problems SOMETIMES but they get payed either way

[garyhgaryh]

Originally Posted by orientblue3

Dinan new to the 335 arena? I'm pretty sure they did more R&D on their flash than Procede, JB, Xede, etc. have done combined. They have to since they are backing the flash with a warranty and none of those other manufacturers even think about that.

What makes you "pretty sure" about this? Assumptions... assumptions...

[Crazy Bimmer]

Originally Posted by sflgator

I am interested too. If the GIAC ECU Flash is as powerful as the PROcede v2 (with zero issues like the Dinan ECU Flash) and if the price is better than the Dinan ECU Flash, I think many ppl would consider it. The only problem there is that you have to remove your ECU and ship it to them for ~ 2-3 day turnaround without your car.

Giac has authorized dealers all over the U.S. So all you do is drive to one and they will reflash your ECU on the spot.

1.8t owners have been doing that for years. I personally rather go for a reflash than a piggyback no matter what the power increase is.

Im just too cheap to pay that much for Dinan's reflash so I will stick with my Xede.

[orientblue3]

Originally Posted by garyhgaryh

What makes you "pretty sure" about this? Assumptions... assumptions...

See my other replies in this thread regarding this issue.

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Thereby rendering his original point all the more valid...there is no piggyback to take out (and sell), hence an instant sunk cost of thousands of dollars you will never see again.

Ya...I guess resale is the most important thing to consider when modding I guess everybody who mods their car looks at resale as the determining factor. Get real, modding is a waste of money and we all know that. Even w/ a piggy back...

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by bmwmike

My guess is that Dinan probably either licensed or bought the knowledge of the chip tune. ...which might explain why they charge so much. I really doubt they have a very high profit margin and are going to be rolling in dough. It would just make more financial sense to get the "key" for the code than waste time trying to break the code.

I heard about 10 months ago that the owner of Hamann was the first to break the code back in 2006, and he didn't do it himself.

Would not be the first time.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

Ya...I guess resale is the most important thing to consider when modding I guess everybody who mods their car looks at resale as the determining factor. Get real, modding is a waste of money and we all know that. Even w/ a piggy back...

After all..., quoting fortune cookies:
" A wise man says don't assume people think like you do"

Pick what suit your need and let other do what they will, people sometimes have a weak confident and wants to justify their purchases.
I've seen it on like 335i vs M3, 535i vs 550i the list is miles long.

If Dinan has no single limp mode in 3 months, they got my vote.
I own my car and will keep it until the wheel falls off, so please it may not apply to you (see the quote above). And I careless what other tells me.

[335i4u2nv]

i miss Evo's too!

i just miss my raw power DSMs

[Terrance28]

Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe

50 whp from a SSTT - $500

40 whp from a Dinan Flash - $2100+

Seeing Steve Dinan laugh all the way to the bank - PRICELESS!!!

Lmfao

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

Lmfao

Since you seem to be using Shivs post on the Dinan numbers as the gold standard (which I actually think they look pretty reasonable) then you should know Shiv Dynoed the SSTT on the same Dyno and saw about 20 RWHP. Thats right, on the same Dyno you posted the Dinan numbers from Shiv saw only 20 RWHP from the SSTT

In other words, for you guys who are having so much trouble understanding this, 13.2 PSI (Dinan) will make way more power than 10.5 (SSTT) but not as much as 14.5 (V2). What part of that is so hard to understand?

[remydlc]

few hp/tq more or less is not what ppl is looking for... is the benefits coming from each products. For a few Dinan seems to work just fine, for the majority a piggyback is more suitable.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by radgator1

Since you seem to be using Shivs post on the Dinan numbers as the gold standard (which I actually think they look pretty reasonable) then you should know Shiv Dynoed the SSTT on the same Dyno and saw about 20 RWHP. Thats right, on the same Dyno you posted the Dinan numbers from Shiv saw only 20 RWHP from the SSTT

In other words, for you guys who are having so much trouble understanding this, 13.2 PSI (Dinan) will make way more power than 10.5 (SSTT) but not as much as 14.5 (V2). What part of that is so hard to understand?

Save your breath on this one….denial works best for those who champion a product for reasons unknown.

Orb