[MatthewsMobileRepair]

I’m going to make this as short as possible as I’m on a time crunch here. I dropped off my wife’s 2010 BMW 328xi at Checkered Flag BMW in Virginia Beach, VA last Thursday after waiting a month and a half for the VANOS bolts to be available for replacement. They contacted her yesterday and told her that the front differential needed to be replaced. In the process of removing oil pan to get broken bolts out, the tech admittedly damaged the inner splines of the differential when removing the drive side half shaft/cv axle but said it was “probably because it was aftermarket, not sure but probably” on video (link below). They told her it would be $4,800 for a differential assy that is listed on their website for $1,948.52. The service manager has stated numerous times this is the price WITHOUT labor. That was the first red flag. The second one happened minutes ago when he ceased all contact with me because I preferred to keep the conversation between us thru text so that I have proof of everything said. My question is, can they charge me for a mistake made by their tech during a recall? Regardless of the part being aftermarket and knowing the car was in working condition when it was dropped off? Tensions are rising and I need help. I’ve called BMW USA and they won’t get involved. PLEASE HELP.

Here’s the link to the video sent to me by the BMW tech. https://c.xtime.com/muEi6-LjT_z_1ABSXX

Dealer: Checkered Flag BMW Virginia Beach, VA

[Efthreeoh]

What is the back story on the "aftermarket" axle? Did you have the axle replaced previously? What brand is the axle? Etc.

[MatthewsMobileRepair]

I replaced it myself about 3 months ago. The front differential has had absolutely zero issues and when installed it was done so smoothly. Car has been driven 10,000 miles with no problems, other than VANOS bolts. In the video you can hear the tech say it was seized and needed to be forcibly removed. I’m guessing they didn’t use the special tool they recommend in their service manual to remove the axle or just didn’t know what he was doing. I just received a text from the dealer stating “as a mechanic yourself, you should know that when removing parts that damage can occur without it being the fault of the workmanship” and I can absolutely agree to that. My issue still stands; the removal of the axle was done for the recall, and as far as I know, it is illegal to charge for recall repairs. Not to mention highly unethical To charge $4,800 for a $1,948 part when they state in the estimate there are no labor charges.

[lowrydr310]

It doesn't matter if the axle was aftermarket or not, they damaged it and they're responsible. Be polite and stand your ground, but be prepared to hire a lawyer if they don't want to make it right. There was no damage to the axle splines when you took the car in. They damaged it, they fix it. Shops have insurance for that sort of mishap.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MatthewsMobileRepair

I replaced it myself about 3 months ago. The front differential has had absolutely zero issues and when installed it was done so smoothly. Car has been driven 10,000 miles with no problems, other than VANOS bolts. In the video you can hear the tech say it was seized and needed to be forcibly removed. I’m guessing they didn’t use the special tool they recommend in their service manual to remove the axle or just didn’t know what he was doing. I just received a text from the dealer stating “as a mechanic yourself, you should know that when removing parts that damage can occur without it being the fault of the workmanship” and I can absolutely agree to that. My issue still stands; the removal of the axle was done for the recall, and as far as I know, it is illegal to charge for recall repairs. Not to mention highly unethical To charge $4,800 for a $1,948 part when they state in the estimate there are no labor charges.

If the the aftermarket shaft was manufactured to BMW specifications then the dealership can't blame the whatever fault (spline damage?) they believe the diff has on the use of a non-OE shaft.

And I'm not seeing any damage anyway. Are they trying to say when the aftermarket axle was installed the c-clip popped out of its groove and got lodged in-between the spline OD and the diff ID? That would be impossible there is not enough clearance for that to take place and it would take a hydraulic press to force such a fit. And... where is the mangled C-clip? At worse case they should flush the diff, reassemble and refill with fresh oil.

[MatthewsMobileRepair]

The following text was sent to me by the Service Manager:

“The differential was not damaged as a result of the recall. The differential still moves. During removal we found chunks of metal in it and the fluid to be extremely burnt. Upon further inspection we can see that the C-clip from the aftermarket axle spline came apart while the vehicle was in motion and damaged the axle channel. This was a result of the aftermarket axle - nothing to do with the recall. You being a mechanic you should understand that when you take a component apart that had an internal failure it won't always go back together the same way with no fault of our workmanship. The quote we included is with no labor included. For clarification the differential should still be operational. However, the axle has play and is not a safe condition. Let me know if you have any further questions.”

He also “clarified” the price gouging situation considering the differential is $1,948 online and the estimate was for $3,000 more by sending me his screenshot of the parts breakdown… that will be attached below.

My question now is, how in the hell should I proceed to avoid having to pay out of pocket for these extremely marked up parts. The axle shaft is discontinued by the way. And I asked if they could just put a new c-clip back onto the aftermarket shaft but he says they can’t get it. The DISCONTINUED OEM shaft is $1,402 thru the dealership. Should I just tell them to put everything back, even the aftermarket shaft without the c-clip? I have made arrangements to pick up with a truck and trailer so I can bring it to my shop and finish repairs. If they do the work that needs to be done to have it running again like it came in, we would not be able to afford the bill. She would owe nearly $5,000 for a car that she is 6 years out from paying off as it is. I am so torn and confused and frustrated. I have been a technician for 15+ years and have never used a dealership for anything so I am completely unaware of how this works if I make things hostile and demand they return the vehicle in the working order it was received.

[MatthewsMobileRepair]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If the the aftermarket shaft was manufactured to BMW specifications then the dealership can't blame the whatever fault (spline damage?) they believe the diff has on the use of a non-OE shaft.

And I'm not seeing any damage anyway. Are they trying to say when the aftermarket axle was installed the c-clip popped out of its groove and got lodged in-between the spline OD and the diff ID? That would be impossible there is not enough clearance for that to take place and it would take a hydraulic press to force such a fit. And... where is the mangled C-clip? At worse case they should flush the diff, reassemble and refill with fresh oil.

They are telling me that the forced removal of the “seized” axle was the cause of the damage, not the result of workmanship or the fault of the technician.

[Mike K]

Get an attorney in on this! Paying one to help you might save $$$.

I did my own Vanos bolts years back and I now have zero interest in letting the dealer inspect them for fear of exactly these kind of high-jinks!

BMW totally dropped the ball on the Vanos faulty bolts, stonewalling the recall, not having the replacement bolts available from their own sources, or even our sources (they had aftermarket suppliers not allow sales of these pre-recall and easily sourced replacement bolts!), and now with bumbling recall service.

Class action anyone??

[lordnikon]

Originally Posted by Mike K

Get an attorney in on this! Paying one to help you might save $$$.

I did my own Vanos bolts years back and I now have zero interest in letting the dealer inspect them for fear of exactly these kind of high-jinks!

BMW totally dropped the ball on the Vanos faulty bolts, stonewalling the recall, not having the replacement bolts available from their own sources, or even our sources (they had aftermarket suppliers not allow sales of these pre-recall and easily sourced replacement bolts!), and now with bumbling recall service.

Class action anyone??

Agreed. These types of mishaps really deter me from taking it to the dealer unless it's absolutely necessary.

[MatthewsMobileRepair]

I forgot to mention the 60% markup on the differential assembly and the 100% markup on the axle seals. I called them out on it and they said they would “honor their online prices” but why the hell does it take me doing the math for them to “honor” their own pricing? Is that how they get away with price gouging? Presenting it at a certain price and only mentioning the exponential markup after the customer painstakingly researches the part numbers and pricing thru their website? What about the customers who aren’t tech savvy? They just pay 100% more than everyone who is? Wtf is going on here!?

[MatthewsMobileRepair]

I find it quite ironic that the cv-axle the dealership swore up and down caused the internal damage to the differential is fu**ing discontinued on their website. How do they expect customers to honor their OEM regulations if they don’t even have the OEM parts available to buy…. After mentioning this to the service manager, I was kindly advised that they will be putting it back together with fresh fluids, new seals, and the original parts all free of charge. In my opinion, it’s not really a win tho. Their inability to make the cv-axle readily (or at all) available to the consumer when that very cv-axle will be removed during the process of EVERY VANOS recall with broken bolts means that thousands of customers are going to be going through the nightmare I just endured. Most of which have zero experience or knowledge in this industry.

So to whomever may find this post and are in need of similar advice, just tell them that the cv-axle (if aftermarket) they blame the damage on is discontinued and that it’s BMW’s responsibility to either repair the damaged parts or provide the necessary replacement parts online for the end consumer to follow their chaotic guidelines.

[whyzee125]

What a scam. First he said it had to be forceably removed and now the c clip has been floating around your burnt fluid and toasting the diff? Which is it?

Excellent point on the fact that there is no OE axle even available. If your axle is to blame, what was he going to use in the new front diff?

Seems like its coming to a head but my take would probably be to have them put it back together as best as possible, pick it up, and be glad it's out of their hands now.

[NorthernDancer]

One distinct advantages of a BMWCCA membership is they have 3 ombudsman who will help you out on issues like this. No cost for a lawyer.

[Efthreeoh]

I'll ask a dumb question. Why does the pan need to come off to find the broken bolt heads? If it was my car I'd get a borescope and look around for them then fish them out with a magnetic tool. The oil sensor hole is plenty big enough to get either tool in the pan to search for and fish the broken parts out.

[Efthreeoh]

If you used a GKN axle, GKN is the OE supplier for E90 halfshafts. I installed the left side rear on my RWD E90 years ago. It fit perfectly.

[Cpet]

Not a fun situation. I hope it drives right after they reassemble everything. Can't imagine anything internally with the differential is messed up to the point where it would constitute replacement.

I've almost gotten to my breaking point with my car. Both the dealership and a local shop have screwed up four-figure repairs in the past few months. I don't have the capability to work on anything underneath the car, nor the time right now. I love my 328 and have kept it very well serviced, but I'm sick of taking it in.

[doit659]

I just had this done on my 2011 328i a month ago. Actually, I was HOPING some bolts on the Vanos were sheared because then they would have to drop the oil pan, which on mine is leaking BADLY. But my bolts did not shear so they didn't drop the subframe, oil pan, etc.

The standard procedure on the recall is to drop the oil pan and get all the metal out of the pan IF the bolt heads are missing on the VANOS assemblies.

I think out of an abundance of caution they drop the oil pan to get any metal found that you probably would miss with a borescope. If those bolt heads are flying around a running engine as they sheared, then there is really no guarantee that they didn't get chopped up into smaller pieces.

Trust me. BMW wouldn't have recommended a full oil pan drop for this recall if they didn't have their reasons.

[M-technik-3]

This and the CCV debacle I'm waiting to hear that we have another fix to the fix to the fix for that one.

OP good for you standing your ground on this they screwed the ______ on this one and don't want to be out this amount of cash. Maybe the Employee should be on the hook for it.

[RealJ22]

Saving this post. Mine goes in on Friday but I do not have awd.

[doit659]

The response above I left was for Efthreeoh.

I am fairly new on this website and learning how to quote/post/reply to threads.

[doit659]

Personally, I avoid dealerships whenever possible but apparently with recalls that is not an option.

In your situation, involving an attorney is a very ineffective approach for several reasons even though I understand you feel screwed in this situation.

First and foremost, lost on most pundits, the plaintiff has to convince a trial judge or jury, that the dealership did something wrong.

Stating to the judge, "Well, it was fine when I brough it in..." is completely ineffective to prove your case.

Why? Because the dealership will be held as experts and fact witnesses to the repair and say, "Yeah, well, the customer didn't realize the problems that we discovered as we took apart his car. But we can show you all the metal shavings inside the differential when we inspected it."

Thus, you have no irrefutable evidence that the car had no pre-existing issue.

And who on God's green earth is going to be able to prove the axles, etc. where pristine before you brought it in? It's just not factually possible.

Second, you suggested in this thread that the dealer may have used the wrong tool to disassemble the differential. And you may be right. Let's assume that DID happen.

HOW are you going to possibly prove they did? They certainly won't admit it. And you can't prove it.

Third, most non-attorneys underestimate the cost, emotional drain, and fact that EVEN IF you won in court, you still have to pay an attorney as part of your recovery. You will NEVER GET BACK ALL THE MONEY YOU LOST.

And if you represent yourself against a car dealership that has attorneys a phone call away, good luck with that strategy. Plus, you still are taking time off work to go to the courthouse more times that you would ever care to do.

I know these facts are not fun, but they are reality.

SUGGESTED SOLUTION

You have an advantage to nearly anyone else that falls into this situation because you are a professional mechanic and, in fact, have done this repair in the past.

If I were in your shoes, then I would tell the dealer to pack it all up, truck it back to your shop, and put it back together yourself.

I would NOT pay that dealer for those essentially price-gouging quotes for something you can do yourself.

I would not ever go back to that dealership because they lost your trust and the prices were a bit crazy.

You can inspect the differential and components yourself with trusted colleagues and figure out what does and does not need to be replaced. (I am an amateur, but I am concerned if there are metal shavings inside of the differential regardless of how they got there.)

And the truth is, you will probably take more care with the repair than the dealership's mechanics who are on the clock and probably will cut corners if and when they can.

Financially, although it's a kick in the seat of your pants for no reason on your part, spending $2000? to get your wife's car back on the road is a more sensible resolution than paying that dealer $5000+ and some lawyer on top of that God knows how much more.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by doit659

I just had this done on my 2011 328i a month ago. Actually, I was HOPING some bolts on the Vanos were sheared because then they would have to drop the oil pan, which on mine is leaking BADLY. But my bolts did not shear so they didn't drop the subframe, oil pan, etc.

The standard procedure on the recall is to drop the oil pan and get all the metal out of the pan IF the bolt heads are missing on the VANOS assemblies.

I think out of an abundance of caution they drop the oil pan to get any metal found that you probably would miss with a borescope. If those bolt heads are flying around a running engine as they sheared, then there is really no guarantee that they didn't get chopped up into smaller pieces.

Trust me. BMW wouldn't have recommended a full oil pan drop for this recall if they didn't have their reasons.

If the bolt heads "get chopped up into smaller pieces" then the cam drive is pretty much toast. The cam chain can be fully inspected for damage with the valve cover removed. There really is no extra work to remove the OZS and inpect the bottom end with a scope. If you don't find all the sheard heads in the pan with a scope inspection then pull the pan, no issue with that. It would save a lot of work to inspect first and if the engine is cleared of debris, it saves hours of pan removal and replacement, especially on AWD cars.